"The Greater Cause" - John's New CD

[BForm]

I think the "america the arrogant" comments that sparked this discussion have completely missed the point of this song. Faith And Freedom is more about Americans doing battle with the enemies within rather than across the pond. In the words of one of my favorite Christmas songs, This Little Child by Scott Wesley Brown, "Every nation that has fallen has fallen from within."

There's one other issue that I have with the spirit of this discussion. I'm amazed at how many people are so confident they are able to wade through all the various sources of news and make the ultimate determination of who's telling the truth and who is withholding it. Seriously? How in the world are you so confident that you're connected enough to know for sure? Is there any chance your own biases are pushing you to accept one over the other? When a European says the American news networks are hiding the story, how can you be sure your media outlets aren't poisoned by deep anti American biases? Like "arm chair quarterbacks" on Sunday afternoon, I think we have a lot of people on the zone that think they have a birds eye view of the entire world from their recliner.

[executioner]

I think the "america the arrogant" comments that sparked this discussion have completely missed the point of this song. Faith And Freedom is more about Americans doing battle with the enemies within rather than across the pond. In the words of one of my favorite Christmas songs, This Little Child by Scott Wesley Brown, "Every nation that has fallen has fallen from within."

There's one other issue that I have with the spirit of this discussion. I'm amazed at how many people are so confident they are able to wade through all the various sources of news and make the ultimate determination of who's telling the truth and who is withholding it. Seriously? How in the world are you so confident that you're connected enough to know for sure? Is there any chance your own biases are pushing you to accept one over the other? When a European says the American news networks are hiding the story, how can you be sure your media outlets aren't poisoned by deep anti American biases? Like "arm chair quarterbacks" on Sunday afternoon, I think we have a lot of people on the zone that think they have a birds eye view of the entire world from their recliner.

That's a good way of saying it. I've taken the word freedom that John uses in the song as freedom from the oppressions of sin. I would recommend anyone to go read up on our history(without the liberal media influence) and see for yourself what we are about.

[pmal]

I grew up remembering reciting the Lord's Prayer in public school. that practice stopped, and that's a good thing. Yet some Christians cry, "They took away our right to pray." No, they took away state sanctioned religion. There's nothing stopping a kid in the cafeteria saying grace before lunch, praying before a test, or even gathering with friends to pray in a group. That all sounds like "prayer in school" to me.

Nobody said anything about "prayer in school" in this thread that I can find. However, I doubt anyone who ever fought for prayer in school is going to be reprimanded on judgement day for it.

[superfly]

Still a good point though Matt.

[Preacherman777]

That is perhaps the most ignorant and stereotypical statement I have ever heard in my life. I don't think that anyone (short of perhaps a skin head) would make a claim like that. To even suggest that it's the prevailing attitude in America is ignorance at it's worst.

[Preacherman777]

Oh ok, seems I misunderstood your point. Sorry about that.

[sue d.]

We're looking at radio singles now... what does everyone think of LIVE IT LOUD as the first single to rock stations? (there's AC, CHR and Rock reporting stations).

[pmal]

We're looking at radio singles now... what does everyone think of LIVE IT LOUD as the first single to rock stations? (there's AC, CHR and Rock reporting stations).

Sounds good, hope that one, Take Me Home, One of These Days, and Hope That Saves all make it to radio.

[executioner]

I think LIVE IT LOUD is the weakest of the rockers and feel it seems somewhat dated; I would prefer TAKE ME HOME or HOPE SAVES.

[Jan]

I think "Hope That Saves" sounds the most like a radio song.

[r_karlsson22]

Live it loud - big no!

Hope that saves... or Take me home - Yes!

[BForm]

I think LIVE IT LOUD is the weakest of the rockers and feel it seems somewhat dated; I would prefer TAKE ME HOME or HOPE SAVES.

I agree, both about it being the weakest and also the most dated. I love this CD. However, I must admit, Live It Loud is skipped every time I pop the CD in my car stereo and I start with the best song on the CD; Take Me Home. That should be first single. I just can't get into Live It Loud.

[BForm]

I grew up remembering reciting the Lord's Prayer in public school. that practice stopped, and that's a good thing. Yet some Christians cry, "They took away our right to pray." No, they took away state sanctioned religion. There's nothing stopping a kid in the cafeteria saying grace before lunch, praying before a test, or even gathering with friends to pray in a group. That all sounds like "prayer in school" to me.

I understand your point Matt. However, in American culture, the same forces that fought to take prayer out of school also fought to make Naturalism the state religion (without saying it, of course), forbid any discussion of a world supernaturally created, and forbid any verbal expression of religious faith on school grounds. Like the boy in Valentine's story, I was forbidden from singing a Christian song in a school talent contest in 1980 on the grounds it violated separation of church and state. It was only later that I learned that my rights had been violated and the Supreme Court had already established precedence on this.

By the way, for those of you who are confused about where our founding fathers stood on this, the establishment clause was never intended to forbid individual states from having a state religion. The clause clearly states the CONGRESS shall establish no laws. State governments, on the other hand, had this right as is evidenced by the number of states that clearly did so. Whether you agree with it or not, congress recognized the rights of each individual state to establish it's own culture. Today the federal government uses funding as a means to draw every state into it's web. Tax individuals in the state and then say "Oh, by the way, if you want any of this back you have to do exactly as we say." Disgusting!

[Preacherman777]

Some very good points made there. The prayer they used to pray in schools was very innocuous. Didn't even mention Christ and basically just asked for a blessing. Really, every bit as harmless as the Pledge. If you know the history of the nation and how this issue was treated early on. There is no question that the founders believed there should be both prayer and Bible reading in the schools and of course, we must remember, there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. That term comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote the Danbury Baptists assuring them that one Christian denomination would not be supported by the federal government over or against another one. His point was that all religion had great freedom and would not be limited or suppressed by the state. The restriction on congress to not make any law that would adopt a state religion (in other words, a religion you must hold to in order to be a citizen) was never intended to limit the expression and practice of religion.

[BForm]

No one here should be surprised that the song F&F does nothing for those who aren't American.

Matt, this I completely understand. But go back and look at the original accusations against the song and you'll find rhetoric far more inflammatory.

BTW, I agree that some American Christians appear to have a problem with elevating their US citizenship above their heavinly citizenship. The Sunday after 9/11/2001 I was sitting in worship listening to one patriotic song after another being sung and I was disturbed to the point of being sick to my stomach. I'm a very patriotic person, but in worship on Sunday I am elevated my brothers and sisters in Christ from every land (on earth and in heaven) and don't feel that patriotic music is appropriate in corporate worship. That is not the citizenship we are called to celebrate.