When did Petra's "downward slide" begin?

[js3971]

You're exactly right Sue. Supposedly this episode began a decline in Happy Days' ratings.

[BriGuyPEI]

Check out all the fun at

http://www.jumptheshark.com

They allow voting on when every tv show jumped the shark, if at all.

On a side note, a new phrase has entered into usage this past year: "Jump the couch"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... +the+couch

[spottacus]

For me it was No Doubt. The songs weren't as rocky, the keyboards were too prominent, the guitar was deemphasized, and Bob left. For me, as for most fans in the late '80s and early '90s, Bob was the band. John was the singer Bob needed to sing his songs. Louie was the great drummer/comic relief. But without Bob, I couldn't get myself to believe that this was Petra.

That was the last album I bought until Revival came out.

[Jonathan]

No Doubt signified the end of their commercial success, but the end of gaining a fan base. While This Means War was what turned my ear to Petra c. 1991, No Doubt was what captured me.

I was already a fan of bands like Soul Asylum, Collective Soul, Live, and Toad the Wet Sprocket, (not Poison, Motley Crue or Van Halen) and ND was a positive alternative.

I just missed the bandwagon I suppose, but to me, No Doubt was great music, and a fantastic message timed perfectly in my life.

[Secondwind]

I have been a fan since More Power To Ya. I lost contact but got drug back in for This Means War. Since then I have bought every album as soon as it came out. Loved every album since then through Wake Up Call, although I thought Unseen Power was a bit of lesser outing.

When No Doubt came out the first thing I thought when I saw the cover was 'where's Bob?' followed by an uh oh. Then I read the jacket and found that Lawry was gone...another uh oh. The album was okay, but a definite drop from Wake Up Call.

When Petrapraise 2 came out, I wasn't even sure if it was a Petra album or not. The CD didn't read Petra-Petrapraise 2, it just read Petrapraise 2. I reluctantly bought it and was relieved that it was Petra after all, but more new guys and although there were some great tracks, the misses were HUGE misses.

Then comes God Fixation. Take a peek at the cover and almost all new faces. The new guys from No Doubt were already gone and Cates had been lost by Petrapraise 2. Not a praise album so I expected a bit more rock. Didn't get it. Look through the album and realize that Bob had only written one song...the best song on the album as it turned out. Overall the album was a real letdown. Three in a row now.

Now in 2000 they release Double Take. A decent concept and some of the songs are pretty good. Saw Petra in concert for this tour at one of those stadium settings for a all day festival ended by Michael W. Smith. Whem Petra played the shed it was mostly empty. Louie started a couple of songs wrong and they started two over. John even mentioned to the crowd that's what happens live. Pete jerked the strings out of his guitar...one song too soon and just stood on stage for the last number. Fortunately it was The Longing, so he wasn't missed that much. But Pete and Lonnie had energy galore so I was hyped for the next release.

Three long years and several temporary players later Revival is released. It was unofficially Petrapraise 3, but at least it had several strong tracks. Even the slower songs were pretty good. Bob was back as a studio guy at least and the pendulum appeared to be swinging back the right way.

Then Louie is dismissed.

Really figured it had more to do with him not being able to deliver the goods than anything else and nobody here really knows. If you look at Paul and what he brings to the table, you can read between the lines.

Anyway back to 2003 and Jeckyl and Hyde's release. Not only does it deliver everything I had hoped for the past 8 years. It TOTALLY BLOWS IT AWAY! Maybe the best album behind Beyond Belief. Petra is back in a big way. Maybe the crowds are gone and the radio support and the soccer moms don't like it, but so what. Petra made the album that the fans who had waited so long for deserved. They made a statement that they were still fresh and could rock with the best of them. Anyone who was fortunate enough to see them this last tour can attest to that and the last chapter of Petra proves it is better to burn out than fade away.

[PetFCtr]

No Doubt in my mind it is "No Doubt" I know of many die hard Petra fans that left when they heard No Doubt. It SUCKED! and still does today. I hate that album with a passion its NOT Petra. Like I said in a previous post about the Farewell album in that when Petra chose to put Think Twice in the rock medley and call it a classic man I was apalled and dismayed. That song does NOT stand up to any of those others in anyway shape or form. They could have picked another song from another album like Not By Sight, Bema Seat, Second Wind, Whole World, or alot of other classics that Petra has done.

Couldnt disagree with you more. I happen to love No Doubt..Its one of my favorites. For All Your Worth and Think Twice really spoke to me..and Enter In....No Doubt is my wifes favorite album

IN Christ
Rich

[rexreed]

I don't think No Doubt is nearly as bad as Wake Up Call. The sound was a huge step back in terms of production (although Sleeping Giant and Reach out are phenomenal). IMO Midnight Oil should sound tons better. The gutars sound wimpy and the drums are super annoying. Unseen power has some great songs, but "who's on the Lord's Side?' is a real stinker. So is the other really slow 1970's sounding dud "Hand on my Heart." No Doubt was just not able to make up for Wake up Call.

Boy, after all this griping you'd never guess I 'm a huge Petra fan!

[greenchili]

Wake Up Call marked Petra's first outing with Brown Bannister. It also (If I remember correctly) won a Dove award.

Anyways... nothing against Brown. I hear he is good at getting the best out of bands. But I never liked the mixing on any of his albums.

Going back to cates and lowrly. I personally believe they really added to the Petra sound. There is a big difference in the bass when they switched from mark kelly to cates. So even though Bob is the mainforce, supporting members do affect the sound. Look what happened when lowry came aboard.

Regardless we still love Petra, just wish things woulda gone differently. I really thought we had something when bob came back and I admit the new band does sound really tight. There are alot of bands that still release stuff on their own personal labels and sell from their own site without the need to tour too much.

But I suppose that's not in the cards.

[BriGuyPEI]

Wake Up Call marked Petra's first outing with Brown Bannister. It also (If I remember correctly) won a Dove award.

And Double Take won a Grammy. Awards don't necessarily equal favourite album.

As for the slide, it depends on how you look at it. Unseen Power wasn't as good as Beyond Belief (but I still love Unseen Power). Wake-Up Call wasn't as good as Unseen Power. But the killing blow was Bob taking a break. I though PP2 was a great album, but I think more people identified Petra as Bob's band as opposed to John's band. The revolving door membership only made things worse. It got to the point where it was like "Who's in the band for this album?" Then it got to the point where you just stopped keeping track of the members.

The bigger thing though is that from No Doubt through Revival there are only four songs that bear the mark of "words and music by Bob Hartman" (More Than A Thousand Words, Think On These Things, The Holiest Name, If I Had To Die For Someone). He still wrote a lot of lyrics on No Doubt and God Fixation, but there's a span where if you take 3 of 4 albums from PP2 through Revival (leaving out GF) there is only 1 new song with Bob Hartman's name on it in any fashion (The Holiest Name).

There's your problem.

[Edward]

Petra had such a strong radio presence back in the late earlies. As the 90's music changed from arena rock and metal to grunge (ala Nirvana/the "Seattle Sound") Petra chose to not go that way, but AC/pop/rock radio instead. Those were new times, with new people in charge. Grunge was not mature music.

This is the beginning of the end. No 80's hard rock/metal band was able to hold there own during the 90's.

Nirvana, rebellion, etc killed Petra.

[Petrapraise]

I believe it was a gradual change that happened in a few stages.

The first stage was: Greg X Volz leaving the band. Several friends I knew stopped listening then. The sound got rockier. The sound before was a pop rock that was very prevelant in the mid 80's. Also, Greg solo album kept that sound, drawing some away.
Eventually people warmed up to John's voice and Bob's awesome lyrical skils. This led to their best selling CD "Beyond Belief".
The second stage happened after that. Mainstream music was changing. Hair bands and hard rock n' roll were changing. Those bands fell apart, but Petra stayed on the hard rock course, which I like.
Then things changed again: Bob left, band members seemed to chang every album and the sound went softer. They tried to go back to the Praise style, but every musician was doing it and it became routine.
Then Bob came back. I thought "Revival" was pretty good, but still praise CD's by a rock band were OK. A form of Alternative music was still in.
Jekyll and Hyde was no doubt what every rocking Petra fan wanted, plus a few other rock fans. I thought there was an eighties twist to it, but that was cool. I thought it might bring a change. But it seems to me that John and Bob are tired. I think some of the passion of performing on stage left Bob. The critics can get to you mentally. They greatly appreciate us as extremely loyal fans, but time does were on them.
Anyway, I wish that God continues to bless them. Maybe they will have 4 or 5 farewell tours like the Roliing Stones did.

So there is my perspective.

[BriGuyPEI]

Those were new times, with new people in charge.
No 80's hard rock/metal band was able to hold there own during the 90's.

Very good points. I guess I'll revise my position. The industry changed and there was no room for bands like Petra. Although I still think all the Bob stuff was a major factor.

By the time the later 90s rolled around, virtually all of my favourite bands were gone. Bands like Petra, Whiteheart, Resurrection Band, and even Guardian. Although Guardian is coming back with new music due out in November (can't wait).

Remember when great Christian music was used to help pump up kids and get youth groups on fire for God? Now all it's good for is background music during the social time.

[greenchili]

Yeah... Sad but true the industry changed. Plus a whole new generation was probably coming in while another was going out. Alot of my favorite bands either dissapeared, dissolved, or self-destructed.

I had my hopes up with "Jeckyl & Hide" but those hopes got dashed with the retirement of petra.

Critics suck. They need to be locked up somewhere. :p

[executioner]

Those were new times, with new people in charge.
No 80's hard rock/metal band was able to hold there own during the 90's.

Very good points. I guess I'll revise my position. The industry changed and there was no room for bands like Petra. Although I still think all the Bob stuff was a major factor.

By the time the later 90s rolled around, virtually all of my favourite bands were gone. Bands like Petra, Whiteheart, Resurrection Band, and even Guardian. Although Guardian is coming back with new music due out in November (can't wait).

Remember when great Christian music was used to help pump up kids and get youth groups on fire for God? Now all it's good for is background music during the social time.

Don't get too excited about Guardian; They will not be doing any touring and the album will not be full length, I'm thinking more like an EP or so.

[BriGuyPEI]

Don't get too excited about Guardian; They will not be doing any touring and the album will not be full length, I'm thinking more like an EP or so.

The word from Jamie Rowe is that it will be a greatest hits covering the early 90s material with 3 new songs. If things go well with that it could possibly turn into a full album. Our old buddies John and Dino are producing.
Sadly, you're right about the touring though. It's possible they may do a few dates in Latin America, or maybe a festival here or there. Apparently Tony is not interested in hitting the road again.