Hit You Where You Live

[LexingtonPethead]

Well, with only a few more Petra CDs to buy before I have a complete collection, I am currently playing my "On Fire" CD that I bought and received just a few days ago.

Right now, the song that stays in my head all day everyday is "Hit You Where You Live". I just cannot get enough of hearing Bob's grinding guitar riffs on that song. There is a constant feed of guitar solos throughout the song, which of course, I love.

And, I love John's shrieks throughout the song (in true '80s form) and the seemingly ad-lib Shlittism, "You know what I'm talkin' about - Hey, On Fire!!" Of course, I can't help lip-syncing.

My favorite part of HYWYL is when just before Bob's blazing guitar solo, John harmonizes with Bob's guitar as it begins to scream. Geez, I get goose bumps every time I hear that part.

I always knew this was one of Petra's best albums. I've always considered "Beyond Belief" to be my favorite. But for now at least, "On Fire" will stay in my CD tray for a long time.

[Petrapraise]

It is a great CD and was a great concert. They had that sword shaped stage walk. It looked as if it came from the Beat The System tour, but I'm not sure.

"Mine Field" also rocks. My wife likes "Somebodys Gonna Praise His Name".

[LexingtonPethead]

Yeah, I love 'em all. "Counsel of the Holy" is the next one I find myself repeating.

I really miss the Elefante' years.

[epdc]

(counsel of the holy in spanish)

I LOVE THAT ONE the first paragrapgh of the song is my favorite, i made a draw (kinda mural style) on paper, I pray i can make a big version of it and givent it to john lawry someday, because the first paragraph inspired me to it.

[ErioL]

The Elefante years bugged me. They never had guitars mixed loud enough, nor bass thumping hard enough.

[Shell]

Don't mess with the Elefantes, you might get hurt, LOL.

Seriously, I think some of their best work was with the Elefantes, but I know not everyone will agree with that. And John Elefante did some wonderful back up vocals.

[crossways]

ErioL,

That sound is pretty typical for a lot of 80's rock especially with the keys. It is very typical of the Christian stuff at the time.

I will say that I agree with you.

In a lot of ways I think the guitars were overprocessed.

[Petrapraise]

The sound quality of Christian music, on the whole, was not that great during the eighties. I had friend who would even give the music a chance because of the poor sound.
I wonder what the cost difference between AAD and ADD quality is?

[PetfanInCt]

The Elefante years bugged me. They never had guitars mixed loud enough, nor bass thumping hard enough.

I couldn't agree with you more. I dont like the way the Elfante's mixed the records. Sounds like everything is muffled.

The Elfante years were rocking thats for sure. But the mixing techniques they used I personally think were a disservice to the bands talents..

I think one of the best sounding or best mixed cd's is WakeUp Calll Very cool sound quality.

[LexingtonPethead]

The sound quality of Christian music, on the whole, was not that great during the eighties. I had friend who would even give the music a chance because of the poor sound.
I wonder what the cost difference between AAD and ADD quality is?

Well, this is probably the biggest gripe I had with *good* Christian music during the '80s, and I'm glad Petrapraise brought up this excellent point.

But this (AAD quality over ADD or DDD) was not limited to just Christian music. There are numerous big name secular bands from the 80's that recorded in AAD quality. There just isn't a whole lot of "doctoring" you can do to bring out the sound.

The fact is Petra reached the pinnacle of their success during the Elefante years. It wasn't just the band lineup at the time, nor was it by divine providence. The Elefantes did many things right.

Petra's sound may have been typical, but it was the popular sound of the time. The Elefantes took an extraordinary Christian band to the top of Christian music. By the time "Beyond Belief" came out, there was no Christian band more popular than Petra. During that time, I was in in complete awe that a Christian band could be so good. Petra made me proud of how far Christian music had come.

Could this have happened without the Elefantes? Petra would have been great anyway, but I seriously doubt if they would have gone as far as they had without the Elefantes. The contribution the Elefantes made to Christian music in general is what helped lift Christian music out of the "cheese" factory.

I believe that if Petra and the Elefantes had not parted ways, Petra's decline would not have necessarily begun with "Wake Up Call". Petra came back with another great but underrated CD with "No Doubt" which was again produced by the Elefantes and once more they parted ways. In addition to Bob's absence from Petra, the absence of the Elefantes was the next biggest contributing factor to Petras big decline in the mid-90s.

Yes, they started toning down the "rock" element to some extent, but the bottom line is that their music sounded much better with the Elefantes regardless of how it rated on the *rock scale*. To stay popular, Petra needed the Elefantes.

Some may disagree with this - I don't care. It wasn't just one factor (the Elefantes), but out of all the factors (Bob's hiatus, a revolving door for band members, the toning down of *rock*, etc...) the absence of the Elefantes, in my opinion, kept Petra from growing their fanbase with new fans. Not only that, but old fans became disgruntled and lost interest because they wanted *rock*, which they weren't getting, and the music had declined.

Of course, they're back on track now with Jekyll & Hyde and with Bob being back with the band. Now all they need is the Elefantes.

[LexingtonPethead]

I dont like the way the Elfante's mixed the records. Sounds like everything is muffled.

Part of me agrees with you, and part of me does not. I agree with the muffled part. But I don't believe it has anything to do with the Elefantes per se'.

Recording with AAD quality was less expensive and very common when CD technology was brand new. To record in ADD and DDD quality back then was very expensive and was something only well established bands and artists were able to do. The sure-bets, if you will.

You'll recall that as the cost of producing CDs decreased, more and more CDs became ADD and DDD, which of course, were absent of the muffled sound you and others are complaining about.

As recording costs lowered, we began seeing LPs re-released on CDs which were remastered in ADD or DDD (such as Washes Whiter Than, More Power To Ya, Not of this World, etc...). Personally, I think these CDs *sound* better than the first CDs released during the Elefante years (that have not been remastered). However, the songs during the Elefante years were simply better in composition, arrangement and orchestration. This is why so many of us love the Elefante years so much. If these CDs were remastered in DDD quality, you'd be talking about the good old '80s.

So basically, the muffled qualities had more to do with technological and cost limitations than it had to do with the Elefantes. It's important to know the difference.

[PetfanInCt]

I dont like the way the Elfante's mixed the records. Sounds like everything is muffled.

Part of me agrees with you, and part of me does not. I agree with the muffled part. But I don't believe it has anything to do with the Elefantes per se'.

Recording with AAD quality was less expensive and very common when CD technology was brand new. To record in ADD and DDD quality back then was very expensive and was something only well established bands and artists were able to do. The sure-bets, if you will.

You'll recall that as the cost of producing CDs decreased, more and more CDs became ADD and DDD, which of course, were absent of the muffled sound you and others are complaining about.

As recording costs lowered, we began seeing LPs re-released on CDs which were remastered in ADD or DDD (such as Washes Whiter Than, More Power To Ya, Not of this World, etc...). Personally, I think these CDs *sound* better than the first CDs released during the Elefante years (that have not been remastered). However, the songs during the Elefante years were simply better in composition, arrangement and orchestration. This is why so many of us love the Elefante years so much. If these CDs were remastered in DDD quality, you'd be talking about the good old '80s.

So basically, the muffled qualities had more to do with technological and cost limitations than it had to do with the Elefantes. It's important to know the difference.

Well put. Almost all my favorite cd's are from the elfante's era..Which would explain the sound quality of No Doubt .No Doubt is not like the sound quality of the older elfante productions. Which would explain the recording methods you stated.

[LexingtonPethead]

What I would like to know is whether we will ever see Petra's first CDs remastered with DDD quality. Man, if they ever do that, I will be among the first to buy them all (again).

[Michael]

You can't "remaster" something DDD. Those designations are rarely used these days anyway, but they mean:

First letter: original recording
Second letter: mixing process
Third letter: mastering process

You can't "remix" something that was recorded Analog and go back in time and record it with Pro Tools so it will be DDD. The most you could do would be to fly the original tracks into Pro Tools and remix them in the digital world, giving you ADD. No pun intended.

You guys have to keep in mind that Petra was ALREADY on top of the world when John came in. If you haven't already, read the article at http://guidetopetra.com/bandhist.html. They were playing 150-160 concerts a year even before Beat the System came out. That era had its share of huge arena concerts for Petra. Which is not to poo-poo the Elefantes' work; what they did was take a band that sounded like The Eagles and make them sound like Def Leppard, which was great for Petra because Def Leppard was like the biggest thing going on at the time. In fact, the Elefantes made EVERYBODY sound like Def Leppard for quite a while there. And Petra's "decline" in popularity in the late 90's and early 2000's was more due to lack of marketing on the label's part than lack of quality in the music. I'm a musician myself, and I even have some light experience and knowledge of recording, and from my point of view, Petra has never released a poorly-produced album. Some of them I like more than others personally, but they've never released "bad" music. Some of the stuff that we've got bootlegged on the Internet from live performances is a little questionable... but those things aren't official "releases", are they?

[LexingtonPethead]

You can't "remaster" something DDD. Those designations are rarely used these days anyway, but they mean:

First letter: original recording
Second letter: mixing process
Third letter: mastering process

You can't "remix" something that was recorded Analog and go back in time and record it with Pro Tools so it will be DDD. The most you could do would be to fly the original tracks into Pro Tools and remix them in the digital world, giving you ADD. No pun intended.

Thank you, Michael, for the technical explanation behind the letters. And, you're right. I haven't seen those letters on any recently released CD for quite a while, though I do keep checking.

Petra has never released a poorly-produced album. Some of them I like more than others personally, but they've never released "bad" music.

Michael, I don't think anyone was calling any of Petra's music "bad". As you know, their musical styles have changed over the years, and we all have our preferences. For example, just because someone doesn't like ballads doesn't mean they think "First Love" is a bad song.

You guys have to keep in mind that Petra was ALREADY on top of the world when John came in.

I won't disagree with that, but they did get more popular under John's vocals and as the Elefantes began transforming the Petra sound. The Beyond Belief tour gave us some very sophisticated, very professional and top-notch concerts that were extremely impressive. The concert I attended during the BB tour was, of course, sold out. In my opinion, if they were on top of the world when John came in, the Elefantes must have created space travel.