Read the first review of the Farewell DVD

[executioner]

I'm not saying this to assess any blame, but it wasn't it Bob who was in charge of Petra's recording aspect of the business (not 'the band')? Who knows what Inpop promised when they signed Petra? I seem to remember hearing the first of the year that Inpop wanted Petra to release another Greatest Hits CD with a couple of new songs on it. (Gee, there was a novel idea -- NOT!!). Most record deals are for 3 records (CD, whatever). It looks to me like Inpop was looking for a cheap way to do the third CD they were obligated to let Petra do. So, it should come as no surprise they made this project as cheaply as possible, counting on us to do their publicity and marketing for them with "street teams" and such. True, no one "forced" Petra to sign with Inpop, but they would not be the first band to have their recording contract turn out differently than they expected. And, I'm not blaming everyone at Inpop. I'm sure there were folks who genuinely wanted to do the best job for Petra they could. What I am saying is that somewhere along the line, what I personally consider to be poor (and cheap) decisions were made and the result was that a less than stellar product was released. To pretend otherwise is nothing but trying to put a better spin on it or putting one's head in the sand (or in an even more disgusting place).

Maybe the DVD is worth $8-12; it would be hard for it not to be. I'm sorry that no one agrees with me that we deserved better, that John deserved better, that God deserves better, than some half-hearted attempt to throw out a product and see if it hits something. I am personally disappointed. I know Inpop is in business to make money, but I repeat, they could have put out a better product and charged more for it and probably made the same amount of money. So they sell 20,000 DVDs at $12. They could have done a better job and even if they only sold 10,000 at $24 a pop, the numbers wouldn't be as impressive, but the bottom line would be the same.

Disclaimer: The above opinion was conceived in my own mind, by my own perceptions. I am aware of the fact that because I am working on John's book that it is possible someone might think I have facts not in evidence, so to speak. I do not. This is not a subject that has been discussed by me with anyone in the band, except for the technical aspect which I discussed in another thread.

I agree with you. I'm sorry but alot of this would not be here if it wasn't for artists like Petra, Rez, Stonehill, and many others. Petra does deserve a better send off than this. Shame on anyone for thinking otherwise. On the otherhand I am happy that we are getting a live CD/DVD even though they are somewhat small compared to other artists.

[Mountain Man]

But nobody forced them to sign with Inpop, that was something they chose to do for whatever reason.

Well, the reason, as I understand it, was that they didn't have too many other options as nobody else was really interested in them. I think their options at that time were: 1) Go independent, 2) Retire, or 3) Sign with the only label that had an offer on the table.

[greenchili]

I still think Petra's fanbase is big enough that they coulda gone independent. But then they woulda had to rely on word of mouth for the rest.

Some of us petheads may be old. But I bet that there are alot in ministry positions who can influence the younger crowd into at least checking them out. Plus there are other ways to get the word out without exactly goin mainstream. It's just a matter of research and exploring these options.

But going back to the inpop issue. When J&H came out there was all this talk about how Petra was just bursting with new songs to write (J&H is their shortest album BTW). I just wanna know who's idea it was to do "Jeckyl & Hide" in spanish.

Comeone guys.. really. Your first album attempt to get yourself back on track and they do something like that. They shoulda been working on a second album with new material. In fact didn't someone on here point out that Petra hardly gets ANY sales off their spanish album. Bad move.

If the decision was made in the interest of ministry, well uh then it goes against their reasons for leaving the ministry (no offense petra), at least the reasons that I've heard for them getting out.

The biggest problem Petra had aside from the change in music tastes of today's youth is how they seemed to keep on flip flopping on what they wanted to do. They do "No Doubt" which although a bit poppish was not bad considering all the personel change. So what do they do after that? "Petra Praise 2". I'm sure alot of fans were thrilled about that. NOT! Luckily it turned out to be pretty decent, but what did the fans think? They do "God Fixation" which sounds completely different. OK fine I can deal with the change if it improves. But what do we get? "Double Take". A decent album in of itself but yet again another style change. After that we get "yet another" praise album with "Revival" which sounded like Petra does "Sonic Flood". Come on guys your killing me. I want petra. I want classic Bob Hartman hooks. Not some SOnic Flood wannabe album.

Jeckyl and Hide was really were things looked like they might head in a decent direction (aside from the weaver incident) and the rest, well I kinda already covered it. It woulda been nice if they coulda done at least two albums in a row that were consistent in some manner.

Now I know absolutely nothing about the behind the scenes stuff, or the circumstances involved so I can only go by what I see and hear. And obviously hind sight is 20/20. So I'm not trying to blast Bob, or John, or anyone else. They did what they thought was right (at the time) and obviously it did not work out and it's a shame. It doesn't help that the entire CCM scene is totally in shambles and run by a bunch of secular money monkeys (my apologies for the terminology used). But the bottom line is the CCM music industry is not what it used to be. We got better music variety, but the spiritual side seems to have gotten stuck on a backburner.

Maybe we will be lucky and someone will step up to the plate like Petra did and "go against the flow", break new ground, and get the CCM industry back on track. But until then we still got a whole backlog of petra stuff to fall back on.

Forgot to mention that I'm also interested in the extra's on the DVD. A little dissapointed they didn't make the DVD different (most artists do), but hey. What can I say?

[apollo18cdr]

Well I am sorry that some of you feel I have an Unthankful Heart, but I don't feel under any obligation to impress anyone, especially anyone at Inpop. Five minutes of rehearsal footage? Why bother? Gee, that's as long as Peter Furler's interview. And how many hours did they rehearse? Five minutes, eh. What a joke.

And yes, I stand by my statement that it beats a blank. It will be nice to have, but I for one hoped that this CD and DVD could be tools that might minister to people for years to come. Something by which people could see what Petra was all about. I predict media reviews will not be kind. They will see it for what it is - a cheesy momento, a one-dimensional glimpse into what was left of a once popular band, which will not create any kind of incentive for casual fans to buy it, much less create any new fans.

OK ... here goes. I'm a long-time lurker and even more veteran Petra fan (I go back to the "Never Say Die" days), but this is only my second post on this board. Despite my "rookie" status, I really felt led to respond to calicowriter.

Why is "only" five minutes of rehearsal footage such a completely horrible thing? Are we glorifying the Lord here, or are we glorifying the members of a rock band? Why is it so completely horrible that a drum solo has been left off the DVD? Is this about Jesus, or the drummer?

Sorry, but I just don't get why the CD and/or DVD can't still be used as a tool to minister to people. Have I missed something, or do the members of the band curse God's name? No? Is there an hour of music aimed at bringing people into an intimate relationship with their Savior? Yes? Then what could possibly be the problem.

Honestly, I don't want to cause hard feelings. I'm disappointed that March 7 will be the last time I will ever purchase a new Petra product. But I know what the band's ministry has meant to me through the years, and for that, I'm eternally thankful. The DVD will be a treasured part of my collection.

[Mountain Man]

I still think Petra's fanbase is big enough that they coulda gone independent. But then they woulda had to rely on word of mouth for the rest.

One of the reason Petra didn't want to go independent is because it would only cater to their diehard fans which goes against their longheld mission of evangelism. Bob Hartman also expressed concern that it seemed too much like glorifying themselves and less about glorifying God.

[Kirkman]

Who knows what Inpop promised when they signed Petra? I seem to remember hearing the first of the year that Inpop wanted Petra to release another Greatest Hits CD with a couple of new songs on it.

This was in my initial story about Petra's retirement. Bob said Inpop was floating the idea of a big greatest hits project to revive interest in the band. This was one of the catalysts for the guys deciding to retire. If interest had to be rekindled, then they felt it was time to call it quits.

Most record deals are for 3 records (CD, whatever). It looks to me like Inpop was looking for a cheap way to do the third CD they were obligated to let Petra do.

Ummm.. I don't think that is accurate. John has told me more than once in previous interviews that their relationship with Inpop was a one-album-at-a-time arrangement, which was better for both sides. Besides, it technically is their fourth album with Inpop.

What I am saying is that somewhere along the line, what I personally consider to be poor (and cheap) decisions were made and the result was that a less than stellar product was released. To pretend otherwise is nothing but trying to put a better spin on it or putting one's head in the sand (or in an even more disgusting place).

You are entitled to hold that opinion, but I wish you'd wait to actually see the thing before passing judgment on it and saying it is "less than stellar" or "cheap."

I'm going to reiterate what I have said before: Yes, the DVD is missing things I wish were on it. But the meat of the thing, the concert, is very good. I love it. It is exciting, fun to watch, and fun to listen to. I really appreciate the way it was edited. I know some folks may not like the style once they are able to watch it, but I personally feel it was very well executed and it heightens the experience.

In many ways, I enjoy this DVD more than CITAS. It is not the world's greatest DVD or the world's greatest concert video. It certainly could have been improved. But taken as it is, it is still a great video that I will buy multiple copies of once it is released.

--Josh

[calicowriter]

Why is "only" five minutes of rehearsal footage such a completely horrible thing? Are we glorifying the Lord here, or are we glorifying the members of a rock band? Why is it so completely horrible that a drum solo has been left off the DVD? Is this about Jesus, or the drummer?

Sorry, but I just don't get why the CD and/or DVD can't still be used as a tool to minister to people. Have I missed something, or do the members of the band curse God's name? No? Is there an hour of music aimed at bringing people into an intimate relationship with their Savior? Yes? Then what could possibly be the problem.

Five minutes is a horrible thing compared to devoting an equal amout of time to a guy who has nothing to do with Petra but to promote his own label and his own group.

As for your other observations, I take great offense that you seem to think we are "glorifying" the band and not Jesus. If it were just about Jesus, why would we need the band at all? They could have taped 60 minutes of us greeting each other as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, enjoying fellowship with one another, as well as encouragement and prayers. But, would you have bought a DVD of THAT? I don't think so.

If you've been a long time fan, you've no doubt heard John use the expression that Petra had to "earn the listening ear" of the fans, rock them with the best entertainment possible, and then watch the concert turn into an evening of worship and of God's working.

The circumstances of this particluar concert really did not have that kind of feel to it. It was staged, and necessarily so given the limitations of time and resources. This evening did not have much of the spiritual talk a regular concert had. While it was incredibly special to those in attendance, I wondered about how it would translate to video. One way of grabbing attention of the listener or viewer is with extraordinary musicianship. One song that really showcased Bob's guitar and John's voice was "Judas Kiss." It is not on the CD or DVD. The song "Lord I Lift Your Name" occurred at the climax of the concert and was an example of all of us worshipping the Lord enthusiastically together. It is not here. I had hoped at least some of the comraderie and brotherly love these guys had for one another might be expressed through rehearsal film or interviews. Or to have each share from his heart. None of that is on this DVD.

This project had the potential to be special. It could have included footage from previous years. It could have more clearly documented what Petra has done to advance the cause of Christ. This is not hour of music that will bring someone into an intimate relationship with Jesus. Instead what we are getting is a low budget, low cost snapshot of one evening, which we now know from another thread (Publicity of DVD), is not even going to be promoted. How does THAT further the cause of Christ?

[Kirkman]

But going back to the inpop issue. When J&H came out there was all this talk about how Petra was just bursting with new songs to write (J&H is their shortest album BTW). I just wanna know who's idea it was to do "Jeckyl & Hide" in spanish.

Comeone guys.. really. Your first album attempt to get yourself back on track and they do something like that. They shoulda been working on a second album with new material. In fact didn't someone on here point out that Petra hardly gets ANY sales off their spanish album. Bad move.

Okay, this is way off the topic of the thread, but I have to comment because I believe you are very wrong about this.

Whose idea was it? Try this on for size: The thousands of fans in Mexico, Central America, and South America who wanted another Spanish Petra album!

These fans have been clamoring for another Spanish album for YEARS. And finally, the band and the record label were going to do it.

This was a GOOD decision by the band. Here's why:

1. It had the potential to expand the band's outreach
2. It would be very cost effective. All they had to do was re-record vocals. The music was virtually unchanged. The packaging was almost identical.
3. It could be done quickly for the same reasons as 2.
4. There was already an audience hungry for this since Petra is an established name among spanish-speaking Christians with their previous album "Petra En Alabanza."

The problem was NOT Petra deciding to do this.

The problem was terrible distribution. I don't know whether this was primarily the fault of the distributor, or the label, or what.

I can't tell you how many emails I got from people in latin america who said they could not find the album anywhere. There were tons of people who WANTED to buy it, but could not, because it was almost impossible to find outside of the U.S.

So, yes, the sales were bad. But this was NOT because the album was made. It was because the album was poorly distributed, and probably poorly marketed.

--Josh

[greenchili]

I still think Petra's fanbase is big enough that they coulda gone independent. But then they woulda had to rely on word of mouth for the rest.

One of the reason Petra didn't want to go independent is because it would only cater to their diehard fans which goes against their longheld mission of evangelism. Bob Hartman also expressed concern that it seemed too much like glorifying themselves and less about glorifying God.

I understand that. But I also pointed out that surely some of these petheads are youth ministors or have enough connections to get the "youth" to watch petra. Thus giving them exposure and the opportunity to do that. Even if the youth don't like them, at least the msg is getting to them.

Besides even if you don't pursue that avenue, there are surely others.

I also don't fall for the "youth" are the only ones that need ministering. There are alot of "young adults" who are just as inexperienced. People act like teens all of a sudden grow up and become super humans once they come of age.. Not true.. I'm not saying sticking to youth is wrong, just saying that they are not the only ones with problems.

But the thing is that reasoning doesnt make sense in light of the reason given for retiring the band. There are plenty of ways to get to the audience they want. It does not necessarily mean that they are gonna be playing in large arenas as a result, or even having a hundred or so people coming up for an altar call.

Remember the bible says two things. That when ONE person is saved all heaven rejoices (as opposed to saved person repenting). That Jesus would leave the 99 to save the ONE.

Obviously this is all a moot point because Petra has already decided. I'm just in blabbing on. "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda". But keep in mind I certainly do not think any less of Bob or John. Just wonder if maybe other avenues were not considered.

For example.. look at the "official web page" pitiful. How are people gonna know who Petra is with a site like that? In these days of connectivity that is a HUGE advantage. Pretty much anybody with an internet connection can get to it. Supposedly people pirate petra stuff like crazy on the net. The internet is there, take advantage of it.

I know that is a teeenny, weeeny, example in the big picture of things. But hey.. I'm trying to keep things simple for clarity.

Bottom line though there are MANY ways Bob could get involved in some ministry related work without even mentioning the name of Petra. So I'm not too concerned about Petra retiring, because that is the bottom line anyways isn't it?

[greenchili]

So, yes, the sales were bad. But this was NOT because the album was made. It was because the album was poorly distributed, and probably poorly marketed.
--Josh

I understand that and I guess I should have mentioned the distribution problem as well. But the underlying point of my comment was not that it was the wrong thing to do, so much as the wrong TIME to do it.

Where did all the new songs that they were loaded with go during this time period? Were they too busy? According to you getting the album out was cost prohibitive and quick.

Jeckyl & Hide came out in 2003. That was three years ago and the shortest Petra album in history. Where are the new songs?

Once agan I just want to reiterate that hindsight is 20/20 so no one thinks I'm going bananna's on Petra or anything. Just posing some questions that have crossed my mind.

Not that I'm too interested in going there since I was merely trying to make a point, but. Going more specifically in the spanish version. Did they tour there? Why didn't they load up on merchandise beforehand? Apparently according to you the interest was there. Were these emails forwarded to inpop or petra?

[executioner]

But going back to the inpop issue. When J&H came out there was all this talk about how Petra was just bursting with new songs to write (J&H is their shortest album BTW). I just wanna know who's idea it was to do "Jeckyl & Hide" in spanish.

Comeone guys.. really. Your first album attempt to get yourself back on track and they do something like that. They shoulda been working on a second album with new material. In fact didn't someone on here point out that Petra hardly gets ANY sales off their spanish album. Bad move.

Okay, this is way off the topic of the thread, but I have to comment because I believe you are very wrong about this.

Whose idea was it? Try this on for size: The thousands of fans in Mexico, Central America, and South America who wanted another Spanish Petra album!

These fans have been clamoring for another Spanish album for YEARS. And finally, the band and the record label were going to do it.

This was a GOOD decision by the band. Here's why:

1. It had the potential to expand the band's outreach
2. It would be very cost effective. All they had to do was re-record vocals. The music was virtually unchanged. The packaging was almost identical.
3. It could be done quickly for the same reasons as 2.
4. There was already an audience hungry for this since Petra is an established name among spanish-speaking Christians with their previous album "Petra En Alabanza."

The problem was NOT Petra deciding to do this.

The problem was terrible distribution. I don't know whether this was primarily the fault of the distributor, or the label, or what.

I can't tell you how many emails I got from people in latin america who said they could not find the album anywhere. There were tons of people who WANTED to buy it, but could not, because it was almost impossible to find outside of the U.S.

So, yes, the sales were bad. But this was NOT because the album was made. It was because the album was poorly distributed, and probably poorly marketed.

--Josh

That last sentence is what has been Petra's problem since the Word days in the late 90's. Management of this band STINKS! I could and will directly blame Bob and John for this; I'm sorry but it all falls back on them for responsibility.
What kind of CCM artist employs a manager the openly uses foul language and also uses name calling to get his point across to a concerned fan? What kind of artist employs a manager that when a concert promoter that has a venue(3,500+) that wants his group to play in but all the manager can do is talk about how much better it would be to bring in the Newsboys instead? This venue specifically wanted Petra because of its ministry aspect that no one else has.

PETRA IS THAT BAND!

BTW the foul language and name calling came via email from Petra's manager and once it was received went to someone here on the zone that passed it on to John, but sadly John didn't seem to be too concerned with it.

[krazykanuk]

There is a lot of really heated conversation going on here over the past two or three pages and I cannot really say I blame any of you. I don't know any of you but it is great to hear the opinions of those who care about this great rock band as much as I do.
I have had my issues with the CCM industry for a while now (I started listening in 1992). It really frustrates me how in the 14 years I have been listening as a whole it has not changed much. And the big problem I have is the respect issue for the verteran bands. In the secular music scene, these bands are respected and treated with dignity. Not so in Christian rock, where bands like Petra are disgarded for the new product.
As for the Farewell DVD, I too was very much disappointed about the missing songs and the special features. First I was surprised there were special features at all. There is no excuse for the missing songs. Mainstream concert DVDs run over two hours in length on one disc. Nuff said.
I am real divided on the InPop issue. On one hand, it it were not for InPop, we would not have Revival. J&H, or Farewell. I understand that. However, is it not proper to give a pioneering band the proper sendoff? I mean, I can see the Newsboys tribute shows now when their day comes. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Newsboys, but I wonder if their future live DVD gets the "time issue" treatment. InPop essentially wiped their hands clean when they said John and Bob had control over the songs put on the DVD. Yeah, right. The record company always has the final say. And even if they did, theys still instaled the time issue, which does in fact control John and Bob.
Petra's final tour was way more than I thought it would be. I live in Ontario, Canada, and I got to see the tour twice (Toronto and London). The latter night was with my wife and all my Petra fan friends and was a night I will cherish. I am truly thankful to the promoter for putting on the four shows (also in Ottawa and Kingston), as unfortunately, he had to have lost money, as three of the four shows were very poorly attended (again probably due to marketing).
Overall, I am gratelful for a live album and DVD with John fronting the band. I just wish Petra would get treated with the same respect as the other CCM artists do.

[greenchili]

Well unfortunately I and my better half were unable to attend the final concert although the opportunity presented itself my son had some weird flu.

It woulda been cool too at least see Greg once live.

Anyways Petra is one of the few groups I could actually get passionate enough about. Most of the others are really no longer around. They mysteriously dissappeared in the early 90's.

For some reason it seems Petra has always been overlooked by the ministry, except maybe when they were making money.

So I myself plan on getting the DVD even if I have a few dissapointments a few years down the road I may regret never getting it. (I dunno how many times that has happened to me).

It's no fun trying to find anything 3-5 years old these days. Alot of places even "christian book stores" dont keep much of a back catalog anymore.

[unlost]

No Judas Kiss? That's almost like a slap in the face, or rather a kiss on the face from a fan who feels betrayed.

[BriGuyPEI]

A lot of people are griping about songs that weren't on the DVD (or CD for that matter). Did you read Josh's review, where Bob addresses the question?

He [Bob] explained the reasons each of the three songs was left off.

Judas Kiss: "(It) was on our first live album and we didn't get a good enough take of it to avoid some extra work. Given the very short time we had for any additional fixing, we axed it."
C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N: "(It) wasn't really a song, just something for fun we threw in."
Lord I Lift Your Name on High: "I can't honestly remember but I think it was a time thing."
Regarding Paul's drum solo, Poznanski said: "That was really spontaneous, if you remember. ... We did not get a clean run at it."

So the big reason for leaving songs off was that the quality wasn't up to snuff without requiring major time and effort to repair. I don't know about you, but I'm satisfied with that answer. Especially coming from Bob himself. Not Inpop. Bob.

Here's another question: If nobody from this board had ever posted the full setlist from the taping, what would you think of the CD/DVD? I guess having too much information can be a bad thing, and sometimes ignorance can be bliss.