Seen and Not Heard

Outcast4him · Post by **Outcast4him** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:13 pm

I heard a story about this a few years back and never really got a definitive answer on it. The guitar riff in the song seen and not heard is the same riff that is played in the kiss song Heaven's On Fire...

I read that Bob said it was a coincidence. Does anyone here know the true story. Or is someone going to say its just a riff lighten up..

When I play the song for people on the internet they say ummm hey that sounds like something kiss put out, which it does.

Then I get into discussions, and people sometimes bash Petra for doing the riff.

Godbless

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:51 pm

I would have to hear them back to back. But from memory, the choruses do resemble each other. If the chord progression is very similar with similar tempo, it could very well be possible to scale a riff in much the same way when the melody lines of the two songs are very similar.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:01 am

It's the same exact riff, Lexington. My theory is that Bob heard the KISS song at some point and then didn't realize he was ripping it off later.

pmal · Post by **pmal** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:06 am

When someone has mentioned that in the past, I have always said that there are only so many guitar riffs to play, period. And with a band like Petra with at the time, 20 years of playing, your going to play a riff someone else did at some point in their career and that's the way I have always looked at all music.

LexingtonPethead · Post by **LexingtonPethead** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:40 am

Michael, when I was in college and played in a Christian band (which never really progressed much beyond some college buddies getting together to jam), I wrote some of the music.

At times, I had to compare what I had written to make sure it didn't remind me too much of a particular song or group I may have been listening to at the time. I can understand how hearing something once may resonate in the back of your mind and come out under completely innocent circumstances.

Thank you for bringing insight to this subject. I have also wondered about this from time to time.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:52 pm

I once wrote a song that later turned out to be "The Rose" by Bette Midler. I still think she should pay me royalties, even though she wrote it first.

Susannah · Post by **Susannah** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:35 pm

I heard a song by Shout the other day (don't remember the name of it), and the chorus sounded just like "I Am on the Rock", which sounds just like Def Leppard's "Pour Some Sugar on Me". The question is, who's ripping off who's ripping off who?

It happens all the time---people unknowingly write songs that sound very similar to someone else's.

superfly · Post by **superfly** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:33 am

With both Seen and Not Heard and I Am On The Rock, it's just the choruses that sound like the secular counterparts mentioned. The rest of the songs' music stands on its own. If you want to talk about bands recycling the same music, listen to all the punk rockers who slam the same three chords around on a whole album. Or how about the Hip Hopsters who've taken over the secular airwaves...not only does their music have a minimum or orginality, but many even use the same "buzzwords" over and over again and rap about the same subjects, mainly sex. As controversal as Eminem is, at least he raps about something other than sex all the time. I'm not endorsing him or saying that I like what he does rap about, but just saying he's one of the few "original" hip hop artists out there. Don't take this the wrong way...I'm using it to make a point.

Later!

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:00 am

The big deal with "Seen and Not Heard", I think, is that the riff on the chorus is the entire KISS song. "Heaven's On Fire" has nothing different for verses... just that same riff over and over for the entire song. And it's not really a chordal type of riff either; it's quite melodic (actually, in both songs the riff and the melody in the vocals are the same). To me it does go beyond "I Am On The Rock" sounding reminiscent of "Pour Some Sugar On Me"... that is VERY common. I'd say if Petra were in the mainstream, though, they might have been sued by KISS. Surely someone in the recording process or at the record company realized that it was almost exactly the KISS riff. There have been lots of lawsuits over things not even as close (Huey Lewis suing Ray Parker Jr., and winning, over similarities between "I Want A New Drug" and "Ghostbusters" comes to mind).

Outcast4him · Post by **Outcast4him** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:09 am

Michael wrote:The big deal with "Seen and Not Heard", I think, is that the riff on the chorus is the entire KISS song. "Heaven's On Fire" has nothing different for verses... just that same riff over and over for the entire song. And it's not really a chordal type of riff either; it's quite melodic (actually, in both songs the riff and the melody in the vocals are the same). To me it does go beyond "I Am On The Rock" sounding reminiscent of "Pour Some Sugar On Me"... that is VERY common. I'd say if Petra were in the mainstream, though, they might have been sued by KISS. Surely someone in the recording process or at the record company realized that it was almost exactly the KISS riff. There have been lots of lawsuits over things not even as close (Huey Lewis suing Ray Parker Jr., and winning, over similarities between "I Want A New Drug" and "Ghostbusters" comes to mind).

So are you saying Petra deliberately copied it.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:16 am

Outcast4him wrote:So are you saying Petra deliberately copied it.

No, I never said that... don't put words in my mouth. If you'll look back at the third post in this thread, you'll see that what I said was:

Michael wrote:My theory is that Bob heard the KISS song at some point and then didn't realize he was ripping it off later.

Outcast4him · Post by **Outcast4him** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:22 am

Michael wrote:
Outcast4him wrote:So are you saying Petra deliberately copied it.
No, I never said that... don't put words in my mouth. If you'll look back at the third post in this thread, you'll see that what I said was:

Michael wrote:My theory is that Bob heard the KISS song at some point and then didn't realize he was ripping it off later.

Ok ok..mike chill...

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:44 pm

Outcast4him wrote:Ok ok..mike chill...

I'm not upset... but once a rumor gets started about what someone said it can be hard to refute. And it wouldn't hurt you to actually pay attention to what's going on in threads you're participating in.

Outcast4him · Post by **Outcast4him** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:30 pm

Michael wrote:
Outcast4him wrote:Ok ok..mike chill...
I'm not upset... but once a rumor gets started about what someone said it can be hard to refute. And it wouldn't hurt you to actually pay attention to what's going on in threads you're participating in.

Mike, a suggestion, maybe an atitude adjustment is in order here.

Shell · Post by **Shell** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:35 pm

Children, children. Okay, I know I'm gonna get into trouble for that one.

The Petra Zone

Seen and Not Heard

Seen and Not Heard

KISS

re

The Rose

it's just the chorus...

Seen

Re: Seen

Re: Seen

Re: Seen

Re: Seen

Re: Seen

Hehe.

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