New single: Would'a, Should'a, Could'a ??

[BillDD]

Better lyrics, some one who sings and doesn't scream, is that too much to ask.


Do yourself a favor and go buy the Kanye West cd, The College dropout, AMAZING cd. Featuring Never let me down, too bad 99 percent of CCM isn't as spiritual and moving as this.

[winterlens]

Better lyrics, some one who sings and doesn't scream, is that too much to ask.

Define better lyrics. I'm still anxiously waiting for you to back up your bluster with something Biblically sound from current CCM.

I can give you a few hints if you'd like. The Waiting's "Every Word" (Wonderfully Made) is decent. Basically everything I've heard by Relient K is not. Chris Rice's "Questions for Heaven" (Smell the Color 9) is not, though "Somebody's Watchin'" isn't too bad.

But I'd be surprised if you find songs as lyrically deep as "Dead Reckoning" (This Means War) or "Creed" (Beyond Belief). I think Derek Webb could do it, though I haven't heard She Must and Shall Go Free yet.

Then again, while we're talking lyrical depth, maybe you should go listen to some hymns, evaluate their doctrinal content, and tell me that CCM competes at all. Lyrical depth in this industry is laughable compared to what we can find elsewhere.

[winterlens]

STEVE CAMP!

Oh, my bad! I forgot about him. There's a good soul.

[Pethead1]

It means a lot to me when my children,all there lifes, here a preacher and on the way home tell us " Didnt Bob write that in a song?" Thet like a lot of people now that they are teenagers but have never said a sermon is in a song except Petra.


What do you want your kids rased on?

[Jonathan]

I think the ability to find spiritual meaning in otherwise ambiguous lyrics can be a good thing, at least once a person is set in their faith.

A strong knowledge is part of the foundation of solid theology, and Petra explicitly instructs, admonishes, and encourages.

Using metaphors as parables can be good, as Jesus Christ illustrated many times in the gospels.

It is after this ability to discern is established that one can dissect the lyrics of a "Roaring Lamb" (that is to say, a secular band with a Christian world view) and gain an object lesson illustrated through a more ethereal metaphor.

Petra provides that basis, and at times pushes us to meditate on certain songs as "Dead Reckoning." Lyrics have become more of a background today. Now you can have a great sound, while the lyrics can be complete nonsense.

[separateunion]

Better lyrics, some one who sings and doesn't scream, is that too much to ask.

12 Stones is nothing special lyrically, their lead singer growls and screams, and the band isn't even on a Christian label, yet they are able to compete in CCM, so what's your point?

[LexingtonPethead]

I'm not suggesting that all of Petra's problems are related to their fanbase, nor do I think that their problems with airplay are entirely caused by "over-zealous fans." I do think, however, that radio stations respond poorly to a barrage of calls from people who aren't in their listening area or who don't regularly listen to their station. Regardless of how we feel about the band, there's a certain amount of deceit in promoting them where we can't hear them or to stations we don't listen to.

I'm not pointing fingers, by the way--simply pointing out that this has happened on some scale in the past. (Petheads are the reason, I think, that ChristianRock.net now has request rules as they are now. Petra's ranking was dropped pretty arbitrarily because some people would over-request the song.)

Let's turn the tables for a second. Do you detect in this zone a certain "Anti-CCM" bias? A quick examination of some threads would indicate that this is so.

When we approach CCM in that manner, it becomes doubly hard to promote the band sincerely. ("Well, I don't really care for CCM, but that's what Petra has to play in, so I'll deal with the goons at Word or RadioU because I have to.")

Isn't this to a certain degree the case? What happens to over-played singles and over-hyped artists? And significant genres of music predicate their existence on the rejection of the mainstream. You could almost argue that Petra belongs to such a genre.

But they will if a lot of overbearing, pushy fans who have a chip on their shoulders call in and argue with them about how to run their business. And yes, this has happened.

It's the simple fact that a lot of fans--of any artist or band, not just Petra--aren't objective, and there is nothing more frustrating than talking to someone who can't see objectively. How else do you explain people who think the Cubs can actually win the series this year? (Said with tongue somewhat in cheek.)

I'm not saying that we all need to be musical critics. But the fact of the matter is that, while Jekyll and Hyde is "the most musically relevant record Petra's done in the past decade," Petra simply isn't producing ground-breaking work. JAH is a pleasant listen when you're in the mood for stripped down rock'n'roll, but it pales in comparison musically to Jesus Freak. Let's call a spade a spade. JAH is a good album--but it isn't great, and if radio stations and their listeners come to the same conclusion, it shouldn't surprise us that that would choose something else.

There's another point to consider: how much does the voting of the listeners reflect how much they liked the other song in comparison? There are so many different reasons that WSC could sink that it's hard to say that it sunk because Petra-haters called in.

Beyond this, it ascribes a certain amount of fame to Petra that they don't really have. Does your average CCM groupie really know who they are, outside of the Houseplant song? (Answer: no.) Sure, there are a few people without lives who might get their kicks by sinking Petra songs (or writing poorly-thought-out messages to Petra fan boards), but by and large, I think most people have better things to do with their lives.

I agree that Winterlens very well spoken in this one. Sorry for being a bit snippy... I was coming off an adrenaline rush I got while posting in that political flame war that erupted twice in the Off Topic forum...

I think one can point to almost anything and single out isolated cases where such and such may have happened. In the case of Petra's fanbase, there may be a music director out there who got barraged by a Pethead or group of Petheads and has an unfavorable bias because of it.

However, I think the music Petra has put out over the past 8 years has had far more to do with their decreasing popularity and airplay than anything else. It's not that I don't understand the point Winterlens is making here, I just don't think the fans have made such a negative impact that it can be measured.

I think Michael posted something in a previous thread about a rumor where Petheads made requests to radio stations that were outside their listening areas. I not positive, but I believe the consensus was that this did not occur. If Michael is reading this, maybe he can refresh us on that.

Yes, I agree that there is an anti-CCM bias on the Zone. I think the resentment stems from how CCM "tolerated" Petra through the years. I'm mainly going with my gut on this one... maybe someone else can explain this better. Even when Petra was at their peak, it was almost like CCM didn't want them to be there, but people people wanted to hear Petra anyway. When Petra began losing popularity, CCM gained the upper hand. To me, that explains why there is no love lost for CCM on the Zone. I've always had the feeling that Petra was on their own with little support from the industry, and I think that's why I've bonded with them through the years.

As far as Jekyll & Hyde goes, hey... it's a matter of tastes and preferences. Some like it, some love it, some don't like it at all. Some call it an ACE, others a SPADE. Is it better than a lot of the songs getting significant airplay on rock formated stations? Definitely. Certainly enough to get decent rotation. While it isn't revolutionary, I can't think of anything else that is.

[Petrapraise]

BillDD wrote:

Do yourself a favor and go buy the Kanye West cd, The College dropout, AMAZING cd. Featuring Never let me down, too bad 99 percent of CCM isn't as spiritual and moving as this.

I listened to some of this,
First, it is not in Petra category of music. Second, I've give you some of it was good if you like rap music. Third, I would NOT want some of that language over the airwaves. It has an advisory label just to let you know that. I would NOT want to hear that or my kids to hear that.

PS: Still waiting to know if your a Petra fan, old Petra fan, or never been a Petra fan.

[Michael]

Better lyrics, some one who sings and doesn't scream, is that too much to ask.

Oh how ridiculous. You have just proved that you are not in touch with the teen market. Top CCM rock band=Pillar. New release of "Fireproof" CD from Pillar=same exact recordings as older release with more SCREAMS added in. I keep tabs on the message board of our Tulsa Christian rock station, and kids LIKE it when people scream in a song. In fact, I read a comment about the new Tait Band release "Numb" (which features a short rock-rap from Rob of Pillar in the middle) to the effect of "The part Rob did is OK, not that great but the scream at the end is AWESOME!" If anything, John does too dang much singing and never screams any more like he did on "Mine Field". Maybe that's what he needs to do to get back in kids' good graces!

For the record, the DJ from the station PM'd me again... I asked if the song fell to Disciple, who I believe it fell to the last time and in Tulsa Christian Rock NOBODY can stand up to Disciple... and he told me that (1) he couldn't remember who the challenger was but it was not a big-name band like Disciple, and (2) most of the people called to SINK Petra than called in to SWIM the challenger. Now, as to how exactly he announced the song before he played it I don't know... he's in his early 30's and a Petra fan from the "glory years" period, though, so I doubt he said "Here's a song from a moldy oldy band that sucks, PETRA!!!!" I would prefer people to hear the song without the word "Petra" in mind at all, but that's just me. To be honest, I'm not that surprised that people weren't too hip on WSC; the music is kind of unusual. Not unpleasant, but different in some ways. And I've been told by an industry person that most stations don't really pay THAT much attention to those kinds of ad hoc contests anyway; they're mostly to give the illusion of listener participation in the station's playlist selections.

You know, I've come to kind of agree on the "rabid fan" theory; you can't really force someone to give Petra a shake if they flat-out refuse. What you can do is let them know you're a Petra fan, you're out there, and you'd like to hear some Petra. And you can be grateful to them when they give Petra a few minutes on the air, or a few inches of space in their mag (thanks for the coverage, CCM Mag!), or whatever. You catch more flies with honey. If the choice is betwen calling in and bugging somebody and making their day a pain and then the next time they see the word "Petra" they have NEGATIVE thoughts, or calling in to thank someone and then the next time they see the word "Petra" they have PLEASANT thoughts, I'd go with the pleasant ones.

You can't force someone who's made up their mind. You CAN make someone feel good when they do something you appreciate.

[executioner]

Like I said earilier in this post, I have two friends that I've known for over twenty years now and they both hate Petra with a passion. They would be two that I know of that would call that sink or swim show just to make sure it sinks. I believe in the rabid fan theory also because I have first hand knowledge of it.

[LexingtonPethead]

Like I said earilier in this post, I have two friends that I've known for over twenty years now and they both hate Petra with a passion. They would be two that I know of that would call that sink or swim show just to make sure it sinks. I believe in the rabid fan theory also because I have first hand knowledge of it.

I also agree with this, due to the "anti-Petra" friends I have. They still pick fights with me INTENTIONALLY, picking apart mostly the Greg X Volz era. They would call in to sink ANY Petra song just to make sure it looked bad to everyone else.

[duner73]

This is what makes me support petra to the fullest. They really visibly live their music...they don't look for the pat on the back, they live the anthem...

Jesus said Go (Go!) into all the world
Make disciples of all men
We gotta Go (Go!) to the highways and compel them to come in
As long as there's a tearful eye that cries alone at night
As long as there's a weary soul ready to end the fight
As long as there's an aching heart that still has strength to beat
We gotta take this message back to the street
We gotta take this message back to the street