John to sing Christmas Classics on TBN Dec. 22

[Preacherman777]

Ok, I just watched it. O Holy Night and Do You Hear What I Hear were not horrible. Yes, he was a little pitchy in spots, yes, his voice sounded thin compared to the John of old. He does seem to have lost the after burners that he once had, but I don't think the average listener would have really noticed anything all that bad. Having said that, What Child is This was another story. That was pretty bad. Yes, he mumbled the words, yes, he forget words or mixed them up and yes his lack of confidence with it was very obvious to anyone. Certainly, this was not his best night of singing, but his message was great and overall and I don't think most people will look back on this and feel like he totally bombed.

Still, I will say that Enosh was expressing his opinion and when a lot negative things were being said about Greg, there were many who said that's just opinion and we need to respect the right for it to be said, so bearing that in mind, if that is the standard we have established in the past, then we should be consistent about that, regardless of what member of Petra is being reviewed.

[cvs2kids]

Ok, I just watched it. O Holy Night and Do You Hear What I Hear were not horrible. Yes, he was a little pitchy in spots, yes, his voice sounded thin compared to the John of old. He does seem to have lost the after burners that he once had, but I don't think the average listener would have really noticed anything all that bad. Having said that, What Child is This was another story. That was pretty bad. Yes, he mumbled the words, yes, he forget words or mixed them up and yes his lack of confidence with it was very obvious to anyone. Certainly, this was not his best night of singing, but his message was great and overall and I don't think most people will look back on this and feel like he totally bombed.

Still, I will say that Enosh was expressing his opinion and when a lot negative things were being said about Greg, there were many who said that's just opinion and we need to respect the right for it to be said, so bearing that in mind, if that is the standard we have established in the past, then we should be consistent about that, regardless of what member of Petra is being reviewed.

What he said.

The trouble with traditional Christmas tunes is that everyone knows the words, so when you mess up, it stands out.

As Sue earlier indicated, lack or practice may have contributed. He may have gone out not 100% certain what direction (vocal wise) he wanted to go, and may have been doing it on the fly.

But for someone 60ish, he looks great and sounds great.

I wasn't embarrassed for him, but he can shine better.

[fcollazo]

He has not lost a thing! He sang the way he sang on: Lovely Lord, We Hold Our Hearts Out To You, First Love, How Long, I Am Available, Take Me In, In The Likeness Of You, and the like. What did you guys expect, for him to scream out in the style of J&H, or On Fire? This was not the time nor the place for that part of John. He ministered to our family with this performance. People need to understand that what makes a great performer, is a versatile performer. If John did only screaming rockers, he would be a one trick pony. I enjoyed it and it was incredible! A always wondered when that sweet voice of his would come out again.

[executioner]

If we were consistent then this post should be edited, locked, or/and erased because that is what has happened to all the posts that were negative towards Greg.

[fcollazo]

Well i don't know what all the negative people are seeing or hearing. This thread has enough support for John that it should not be blocked.

[executioner]

I don't know if I appreciate the extremely negative review, Enosh. This is a person you are talking about that we all love and care about and we should be building each other up, not tear each other down. I know this is the way you felt about what you observed, but should that really be said in such a blunt way on a public forum? I don't think that's the best idea as you are talking about a brother in Christ.

It's attitudes like this that has created a CCM industry of mediocrity. There is certainly room for criticism in Christianity. It's how we grow. What Enosh said may have been blunt, but it was not malicious. People here need to take their Greg/John/Bob/Petra blinders off and be objective about them.

None of us are ever, ever perfect in anything we do, certainly not live performances. I'm sure you as a performer/singer/worship leader have had many blunders in your own concerts and you always hope that your audience is forgiving and still will continue to support and appreciate you.

Where is Enosh being unforgiving? When did he say he would no longer support and appreciate John?

Sometimes I feel it's better to keep things to one self if we have negative things to say and rather PRAY not SAY.

This is feel good hogwash that needs to see it's way out of Christianity NOW.

I was thinking of Seen and Not Heard more or less

[sue d.]

There won't be any blocking... it's a legitimate thread with normal discussions. Threads are blocked when the name-calling and disrespecting of each other begins. That's not happening on this thread, so all is well.

Enosh wrote:

I'm sorry, he forgot many lyrics, not all. Are you seriously going to get picky on that?

Yes. Words like "all," "awful," and "embarrassed" have very strong connotations and put the WHOLE THING in a negative light.

I'm not saying you should lie and praise a performance... I'm not calling you the bad guy either.... I'm questioning the words you chose to describe what you saw. There is power in words... and yours were extreme, in my opinion. I don't feel I'm being defensive of John; he can stand on his own - after 30+ years he has nothing more to prove.

I was shocked to see a post that it was great. It wasn't.

One thought it was great, one thought it wasn't. Every person perceives differently.

Trodland and I are going to show you ANOTHER version of O Holy Night that John did from last week.... as soon as it's ready I'll load it to YouTube & post it here. It's rough, raw and totally ALIVE!

[Jan]

Like most people here, I loved O Holy Night. What Child is This is my 2nd favorite Christmas song after O Holy Night, and I think he could do it fabulously with more practice. I agree with exe that he has a beautiful low register, and it could really come out on that song. I didn't hear the thinness Enosh mentioned, but I know what he means because I have heard it before somewhere on a video where the high notes weren't very strong....but the thinness didn't sound typical for John, so to me it doesn't seem like his voice is "going."

I really like Jason as a host, he is so down to earth and not hokey like others. I always enjoy hearing John speak, he is kind of like a coach (a nice one), very motivational and uplifting.

[zak89]

I haven't seen the whole clip yet, but 'O Holy Night' was so good, it was chilling. My absolute favorite rendition of that song. I did catch that "one good note" Enosh mentioned - IMHO the whole performance was good enough I wouldn't have missed that, but it was like icing on the cake - powerful and beautiful. There were a couple moments were I knew John probably would have done a high line had his voice been up to it (and I know he still can when he's ready, as he has done some cool stuff in the high end rather recently in some of the YT clips). Every once and a while John seems to have a really good day and can sing like it's 1989. This time wasn't that, but it was far from poor. I loved it!

I lost interest during the second song - not John's fault, I just didn't get the style/lyric. I'll watch the rest later.

[executioner]

I'm not saying this should be edited or locked, but if we were consistent then it should be done. All posts(including the post giving the full reviews of BTTR) that were in anyway negative towards ClassicPetra and Greg have been edited, locked, or erased.

[pmal]

I love John with all my heart and I am eternally grateful for what he has done for us. He has given it his all with his voice, for the Lord and for us in Petra and on solo stuff. That demands my respect. John's voice isn't as strong as in the past and I'm sure he would admit that. I'm not gonna say his age but it is what it is and no one doesn't lose some of their vocal strength when they get older. John does sound different than he did 10 years ago, and, compared to what we've heard from John over the last twenty years or so, this didn't go great. He would have blown the doors off of that place 10 years ago. It wasn't that kind of performance last night. I just think we all badly want John to get all the props he deserves and just wanted last night to go perfectly. I was hanging on every word he sang and wanted it to come off flawless and that didn't happen. His confidence in the music didn't seem to be high and that's one of the things it takes to have a flawless performance, at least in my experience. I told my brother, who hadn't seen or heard John sing in a while and isn't a die-hard fan like myself, that he was on and he turned it on and watched it as well. I don't think he had heard John sing in 10 or even 15 years. We text-ed back and forth. He also remarked how different John sounded versus the last time he had heard him and that he had put on some weight, but he couldn't believe he still looked and sounded like that at his age. He enjoyed it. The wife and I both got to watch it in HD on a local channel that carries the show. My wife is a critic for sure and we both thought he sounded great on O Holy Night, except for the ending which was no fault of his. The first part was awesome and the song kept building, like the end was going to blow everyone away. But, the arrangement of the song didn't allow for that. John is a great lead singer and has always sung with so much authority. At the end, when John started harmonizing with the lead instead of being the lead, it put too much focus on the backgrounds and it sounded awkward. That wasn't his fault, the arrangement of the song wasn't made for him but it was a sign of what was going to happen in the next two. They weren't bad but it could have gone better as well. He did mix up some of the words and mumble on some of those to cover it up. However, to give him credit, the last two songs didn't suit his vocal style the best in my opinion. Like I said before, John is a great lead singer. It was like he didn't know the arrangements well and was having to force it to make it happen, and then mixing up some of the lyrics made it worse. I was left wanting those two songs to have better showcased him and his range as a lead. So, overall, it wasn't the best I'd seen John perform and it didn't go great. Maybe I am just spoiled based on all the performances I have heard with John. However, I am grateful that I got to see John sing again. My brother enjoyed it a lot and I hope this opens some doors for John.

[SamScales]

All what bugged me is the words "being embarrassed for" John and that it was "awful". Enosh, if you felt that way, that's fine, we all get those feelings when we hear someone we care about not do their best. But I guess I just wouldn't have said that and kept that part to myself and just would have focused on the performance itself.

I'm listening to it - I don't hear awful, it wasn't stellar or the greatest performance, but - I don't think it was really awful either. Yeah, he forgets words and sure, to mention that is part of an honest review. Can he do better, of course he can and does!

....and yeah pray not say should be the standard of our lives as Christians and I'll stand by that. I've sometimes said many things that have hurt people and wish I'd have kept my mouth shut! If I have something to say that's constructive criticism then I need to pray first before I'm to speak and then I'll say it to that person in private and with kindness and love. I guess I just wouldn't discuss things on a forum about another person if that person is not on there to defend themselves.

Anyways, anyone is entitled to their opinion and I love ya Enosh!!!....and that's all I have to say about that subject.

[SamScales]

pmal - agreed. I appreciate your review. I just saw and read it after I had posted.

[Shell]

Well, I haven't heard it yet...I had a crazy day yesterday and ended up working while the show was on. I'll withhold comments on the songs until I see it.

That being said, it certainly isn't a requirement to blindly love the performance, but perhaps something like "it sounds like he was having an off day" (I mean, really, don't we all have those days sometimes) or "he may not have been too prepared" would have been sufficient and still made the point. It can be tricky, but there is a way to be honest and still be tactful. And the Internet isn't always the best place to deal with stuff. We don't know what John had going on that day. With the short notice as mentioned, he probably didn't have enough time to prepare.

[BForm]

Well, I need to respond since Enosh was primarily responding to my comment. Enosh, I completely understand why you responded the way you did. I have, on occasions too numerous to count, felt that fans on this board have critiqued performances too often while "looking through rose colored stained glass windows". So let me clarify.

When I told my wife what I was turning the channel to, with God as my witness, I said to her that I'm somewhat afraid to watch because I didn't want John to sound totally out of place and extremely pitchy and, yes, I used the word embarrassed. In many of the past recorded TBN or Schuller broadcasts where he sung soft, low songs like Only Men and other Grafting tunes....let's just say I don't think the performances came anywhere close to doing justice to his abilities. As much as many of you want to fight it, his voice is wearing thin and it shows up more in softer songs than anywhere else. Even with the rock tunes he often sounds pitchy and in the middle of a song has to change the melody because his voice starts to wear out.

Enosh, it was from that perspective that I made the comment I did. After fearing the worst, I was pleasantly surprised at how well he held it together and in that sense I thought it worked well....or better than expected. No, it was nowhere near one of John's best performances and his voice did sound thin, and he sometimes seemed like he was really holding back, with the backing vocals drowning out his own.

So I am not the slightest bit offended by what you said and think I understand the emotion behind why you said it. I love John's music and will continue to buy everything he does. But pretend he hasn't lost anything? Please, let's be adults here.