just wondering

[Mountain Man]

I've agreed with Preacher throughout this post because I see him taking & talking about the Godly view in this; the thing that I fail to understand is Brent's point of view on the "market because up until the last few posts he seems to leave God out of the equation all together. He made it seem that the market has complete control over CCM and there is nothing God can do about it; which we all know that God is all powerful.

I suppose it depends on your concept of God. Yes, he is sovereign and omnipotent, but does he necessarily take active control in the lives of men? Just because God can doesn't mean he does. Or, having given us dominion over the earth, is he content to let man handle has own affairs as we see fit?

[brent]

I've agreed with Preacher throughout this post because I see him taking & talking about the Godly view in this; the thing that I fail to understand is Brent's point of view on the "market because up until the last few posts he seems to leave God out of the equation all together. He made it seem that the market has complete control over CCM and there is nothing God can do about it; which we all know that God is all powerful.

I suppose it depends on your concept of God. Yes, he is sovereign and omnipotent, but does he necessarily take active control in the lives of men? Just because God can doesn't mean he does. Or, having given us dominion over the earth, is he content to let man handle has own affairs as we see fit?

He does let us do our thing, but he knows what is going to happen before hand. He knew before Jesus created it. We have all of written history to see that God is hands off with the outside, and active on the inside.

[Mountain Man]

I've agreed with Preacher throughout this post because I see him taking & talking about the Godly view in this; the thing that I fail to understand is Brent's point of view on the "market because up until the last few posts he seems to leave God out of the equation all together. He made it seem that the market has complete control over CCM and there is nothing God can do about it; which we all know that God is all powerful.

I suppose it depends on your concept of God. Yes, he is sovereign and omnipotent, but does he necessarily take active control in the lives of men? Just because God can doesn't mean he does. Or, having given us dominion over the earth, is he content to let man handle has own affairs as we see fit?

He does let us do our thing, but he knows what is going to happen before hand. He knew before Jesus created it. We have all of written history to see that God is hands off with the outside, and active on the inside.

Exactly. God doesn't wipe our nose for us, but he has given us the guidance of his Holy Spirit to help us make decisions that are consistent with his will.

[Preacherman777]

You guys are missing the point. It's not about God micromanaging the affairs of men, though there are those who believe he does, that's not what I'm talking about. The Bible is abundantly clear that God is not hands off when it comes to the affairs of men. He is sovereign over everything, he makes nations rise and fall for his purposes and man is not free to act against God's sovereign will. Whatever free will we have, we have because God grants it to us and he does so to the extent that it does not conflict with his plans and purposes. If God wanted Petra to be a huge thing right now he could make that happen. There is nothing in the power of men that could prevent it. This isn't about salvation or anything like that. Man is free to choose about that sort of thing, this is about God's plans for the world he created. Do you think Petra was a big thing in the 80's and early 90's by accident or just because of the Market? Do you really think God had nothing to do with that? If that's what you are saying, then that is what I am saying is completely not in keeping with the what the Bible teaches. Not that God needed Petra or that no one else could have served that purpose, but that God in his sovereign will (for whatever reason) raised them up for given purpose at a given time.

[brent]

You guys are missing the point. It's not about God micromanaging the affairs of men, though there are those who believe he does, that's not what I'm talking about. The Bible is abundantly clear that God is not hands off when it comes to the affairs of men. He is sovereign over everything, he makes nations rise and fall for his purposes and man is not free to act against God's sovereign will. Whatever free will we have, we have because God grants it to us and he does so to the extent that it does not conflict with his plans and purposes. If God wanted Petra to be a huge thing right now he could make that happen. There is nothing in the power of men that could prevent it. This isn't about salvation or anything like that. Man is free to choose about that sort of thing, this is about God's plans for the world he created. Do you think Petra was a big thing in the 80's and early 90's by accident or just because of the Market? Do you really think God had nothing to do with that? If that's what you are saying, then that is what I am saying is completely not in keeping with the what the Bible teaches. Not that God needed Petra or that no one else could have served that purpose, but that God in his sovereign will (for whatever reason) raised them up for given purpose at a given time.

So Hitler WAS God's sovereign will?

[adpetrafan]

So Hitler WAS God's sovereign will?

In all seriousness, and no offense intended, are you taking medication at this time? How in the world do you get here unless you are not in your right mind? Or is this just a game to you?

[brent]

So Hitler WAS God's sovereign will?

In all seriousness, and no offense intended, are you taking medication at this time? How in the world do you get here unless you are not in your right mind? Or is this just a game to you?

I am trying to get an explanation from him.

[adpetrafan]

So Hitler WAS God's sovereign will?

In all seriousness, and no offense intended, are you taking medication at this time? How in the world do you get here unless you are not in your right mind? Or is this just a game to you?

I am trying to get an explanation from him.

For what? The text you quoted is as clear as day, and it had nothing to do with your reply.

[Preacherman777]

Exactly, besides, I already addressed that issue when Rex posed basically the same question. Apparently, Brent thinks that Hitler was beyond God's control. For whatever reason God had to allow Hitler to do what he did. Just as he had to allow Satan to harm Job. His reasons may never be known to us this side of Heaven, but to assert that God just steps aside and allows men to do whatever they will with the world, I will say once again, is Deism and not Christianity.

[rexreed]

Remind me again what the subject of the thread is about?

[shawnpfan2010]

I started this post and don't even know what it was about!!

[brent]

You sucka's take bait...but not the big bait. Honest to God I had a root canal at 7am.

[rexreed]

If a child were to ask you why it rains and you tell them because God made it rain then you really did not answer the question correctly. Try and apply that thought with the question in this thread and that is my problem with exe and preacherman's long winded answers.

[adpetrafan]

If a child were to ask you why it rains and you tell them because God made it rain then you really did not answer the question correctly. Try and apply that thought with the question in this thread and that is my problem with exe and preacherman's long winded answers.

I do not understand this. Preacher wrote (among many other things that also convey the multiple facets of the answer):

"If God wanted Petra to be a huge thing right now he could make that happen."

There is nothing incorrect or unclear about this statement.

There have also been comments about the music, the message, the use of scripture, etc. The original question has been answered over and over.

If you don't see the answers, then you are not reading them.

[brent]

God does not always get what He wants. His perfect will is different from his permissive will. Man has a say in things.