Time to hang it up?

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
Preacherman777
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by Preacherman777 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:58 pm

My temptation to discuss what I know would not be on here or with the people here, but rather with fans of Classic Petra who have been left horribly confused by everything that's happened, but again, I haven't said anything to anybody, though I might say that some people who are saying that I should not disclose what I know are the same people who have disclosed what they say they've learned from insiders, so there ya go. I just feel bad for the fans who have been neglected and taken for granted.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by Shell » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:33 pm

Okay, you know what, in the big scheme of things, whether anyone has "inside sources" or knows what goes on behind the scenes does not really matter, and the world is not going to end because of people not knowing what happened with Classic Petra. They are not obligated to let everyone in on what goes on, and being a fan does not equal entitlement to inside information.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by Preacherman777 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:38 pm

No, you're right, it doesn't, but when they make a big deal to the fans about what they are planning to do and then they don't do it with no explanation, that's inconsiderate, no way around it. It would seem that the fans are good enough to be kept informed when they want to try and sell them something, but beyond that, apparently not. I'm starting to think that Brent is right. Even with Petra, it's all just a business.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by executioner » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:58 am

Shell wrote:
executioner wrote: I disagree with "if its God's Will they will continue" with the reason being God's Will doesn't always come to pass because of the human factor being involved; none of us are perfect and fail everyday.
I understand what you mean, but the fact is, God is bigger than any nonsense people can come up with and He can and does use imperfect people. Human failure doesn't stop God. If it did, we'd be in a whole lotta trouble. :P

Maybe I'm saying it wrong so let me paint a picture. It's God's Perfect Will for CP to continue but only under the circumstances of all 5 members being involved. God will let them know in His time what he wants, but does this mean all are listening? No it does not so in reality CP no longer will be viable for God or anyone else on a current basis.
Now I'm not saying this is the case and I'm just using CP as an example to my previous post. God will use anyone and anything to get His Will done, but He will not force it upon us and all will have to be willing to be involved to get it done in the perfect way God wants it.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by gman » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:12 am

Petra is a business that provides a ministry, as opposed to a ministry that provides a ministry. If the business is no longer viable, for whatever reason, then there is no more Petra. They are not going to be Petra the garage band ministry with minimal gear playing the local Christian coffeehouse for 20 people and a love offering.
They are like the Christian plumber, businessman, etc., with the opportunity to minister in the course of conducting their business. They have set a minimum standard they wish to meet financially, performance wise, etc. They have lowered that standard quite a bit, but there is a bare minimum point where, below that point, the business is no longer viable. They really can't give any more of their own resources or time to try and keep it going. They will find other ways to minister (see II Guys, John solo, etc.), but as a business they will cease.
I would contend that Petra is a Christian business whose primary purpose is to provide financially for its' members. That provision allows them the time to go out and use the business to to minister to people.
By contrast, a ministry, in basic terms as I see it, utilizes a model that puts the ministry first and trusts the business or financial side to God.
Neither approach is necessarily superior to the other. Paul talked about receiving provision from the brethern, and he also mentioned working so as not to be a burden on the church.
Many U.S. missionaries operate under a model where they have to travel from church to church, when not in the field, to raise or justify support. They trust God to provide the money from those churches for them to be able to continue. The Souther Baptist Association raises the money itself, and then guarantees the wages of its' missionaries so they don't have to worry about it.
Sorry I got long winded. It helps to pass the time at work. Petra is not just a business. There is ministry that flows out of that business, but it is business first.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by executioner » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:35 am

Preacherman777 wrote:No, you're right, it doesn't, but when they make a big deal to the fans about what they are planning to do and then they don't do it with no explanation, that's inconsiderate, no way around it. It would seem that the fans are good enough to be kept informed when they want to try and sell them something, but beyond that, apparently not. I'm starting to think that Brent is right. Even with Petra, it's all just a business.

No your not getting it; If I was a gambling man I would bet you my home and all possessions that the five bands members are at this time legally bound not to make any official public statement about rhyme & reason on to why Classic Petra are no longer in the picture. I know its hard to swallow but this whole thing is most likely out of their hands at this point and time; We might hear something down the road about what happened in an interview or something, but for now we have some type of word we have gotten from Petra's fb manager and also stuff that some of us have gotten off the street from people in the business.

If you remember correctly this also happened(to a point) when GXV left back in 1985 and too be honest no one knew the full truth about it until years later. The only thing that was said about it back in 1985 was GXV was leaving to get off the road and would be looking at a solo career, but we find out years later that Bob wanted a change production wise and JDB was let go(BTW the only reason why we got CITAS was because JDB had one album left on his joint contract with Petra/Star Song) Star Song actually wanted another full length of all new material album from Petra/JDB but Bob says nope your not getting it. In the summer of 1985 while Petra was touring Bob already had John & Dino in place working on BTTS and most of BTTS was completed(without vocals) production wise even before Greg was out of the band.

1. GXV last official appearance with the band was in the first week of December 1985.
2. John Schlitt came in for an interview & audition in August 1985 and sang Alter Ego first and then Run For Cover for the audition, but John did not officially join the band until January 1986 and didn't lay down his vocals for BTTS until March 1986.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by executioner » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:40 am

gman wrote:Petra is a business that provides a ministry, as opposed to a ministry that provides a ministry. If the business is no longer viable, for whatever reason, then there is no more Petra. They are not going to be Petra the garage band ministry with minimal gear playing the local Christian coffeehouse for 20 people and a love offering.
They are like the Christian plumber, businessman, etc., with the opportunity to minister in the course of conducting their business. They have set a minimum standard they wish to meet financially, performance wise, etc. They have lowered that standard quite a bit, but there is a bare minimum point where, below that point, the business is no longer viable. They really can't give any more of their own resources or time to try and keep it going. They will find other ways to minister (see II Guys, John solo, etc.), but as a business they will cease.
I would contend that Petra is a Christian business whose primary purpose is to provide financially for its' members. That provision allows them the time to go out and use the business to to minister to people.
By contrast, a ministry, in basic terms as I see it, utilizes a model that puts the ministry first and trusts the business or financial side to God.
Neither approach is necessarily superior to the other. Paul talked about receiving provision from the brethern, and he also mentioned working so as not to be a burden on the church.
Many U.S. missionaries operate under a model where they have to travel from church to church, when not in the field, to raise or justify support. They trust God to provide the money from those churches for them to be able to continue. The Souther Baptist Association raises the money itself, and then guarantees the wages of its' missionaries so they don't have to worry about it.
Sorry I got long winded. It helps to pass the time at work. Petra is not just a business. There is ministry that flows out of that business, but it is business first.
I think this nicely sums it up; I've seen Bob say something like this in the past about on how Petra needs the business side in order for the ministry side to be affective.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by brent » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:42 am

There was more to it than that. But..that has been discussed before.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by executioner » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:02 am

brent wrote:There was more to it than that. But..that has been discussed before.
What post are you commenting on?
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by brent » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:15 pm

It was more than a change in producers.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by executioner » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:50 pm

brent wrote:It was more than a change in producers.

Yeah I know, but was trying my best to be nice :mrgreen:
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by thunderecho » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:05 pm

brent wrote:I think we need to consider what God's will is for mankind. God's will is that none should perish, yet we know there is a hell, and there will be a judgement of the saved and the lost. We know that believers will have the blood of the lost on their hands in judgement. That right there tells me that WE have an impact, good or bad. If God's perfect will comes to pass no matter what we do, then God is kind of just playing games with us. We get to screw off all we want to, God gets his job done, and all is good in the end. This is not so. We will be rewarded for our labor, stewardship, etc. The fact that the saved will have rewards, good and bad, for their labor says that people will not live up to their potential and God's will. Since WE are essentially the hands and feet of Christ on earth, and God moves and touches people through people, we can and do cause some people to make decisions other than what God wants.

God did not set up a system based on commerce. Commerce is not evil in and of itself. But, the dispensing of the Gospel is OUR job individually. Missions requiring people to travel, are to be commissioned by the local church. Those people need to be funded. Petra is a business, that makes a profit (for someone) and does not exist without money. They do work that benefit's God and God's people, in the form of ministering through Christian entertainment. But, Petra is not essential. Christian music is not essential. Music for money is not essential to spreading the Gospel. Music is to be made in our hearts, to minister to each other and in response to praise God. If you want to pay to hear somebody do that, fine. But that is not God's will. It is a human's free will choice, as they are able.

We are not to praise or worship people, or music. This is a fine line that many cross. Many here cross it. Again, God's will is bigger than Petra. Petra is not by and of the church organizationally.

Petra is a group of Christians playing music, selling music...for money. What if the world goes broke tomorrow? There would be no CCM industry. Why? No money. God's will will still remain, and so will the calling upon man and it will still be worked for by believers not being paid to do Christian work.
Very good post Brent. Thanks for taking the time to reaffirm in your comments what God's will is for his people. We all need to stay focused on God and not worship bands like Petra.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by thunderecho » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:39 pm

Shell wrote:Okay, you know what, in the big scheme of things, whether anyone has "inside sources" or knows what goes on behind the scenes does not really matter, and the world is not going to end because of people not knowing what happened with Classic Petra. They are not obligated to let everyone in on what goes on, and being a fan does not equal entitlement to inside information.
Exactly - none of the members of CP have an obligation to tell us anything about why they stopped touring. Why do people want to dig in the dirt when they should be looking at the sky?
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by rexreed » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:43 pm

How do you know there is dirt? Nothing wrong with wanting to know.
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Re: Time to hang it up?

Post by Shell » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:14 pm

rexreed wrote:How do you know there is dirt? Nothing wrong with wanting to know.
No, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting to know, and there doesn't necessarily have to be dirt. Wrong becomes an issue when people seem to think they are due an explanation and then start bad mouthing them if they don't happen to get the information they are demanding. There's nothing written saying they have to kill themselves trying to please everyone, and there will always be someone who isn't pleased no matter what they do anyway.
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