The Petra Zone

I kind of waited to see where this was going before adding my 2 cents. It is a pretty good discussion about remembering you're representing Jesus. I haven't seen the video yet; I'm still debating whether to watch it or not.

A good rule of thumb though that really applies to anyone: If you don't want something to end up on YouTube or some other site on the Internet, don't do it.

gman wrote:Heres where my thought process went after watching the video. I ran across a guy some years ago who obviously proclaimed to be a Christian. He wore Christian t-shirts, and had a homemade bumber on his pickup truck with the word Jesus Saves, and various Christian symbols carved into it. I had an opportunity to provide service to him, as a seller of frozen confections from a moving vehicle with a bell. He emerged from a house with a friend, intending to buy several of the same thing for the kids in the house. As he approached the vehicle with his friend, I noticed his tie-dyed Praise the Lord shirt. As he perused the menu deciding what to buy, what followed was profanity filled tirade about the products and the prices. There were f-bombs a plenty, and other vulgarities. The whole thing left me feeling disgusted and sick.
I want to be careful about the Greg video, because I don't know the greater context, but I did kind of get that same uneasy feeling.
As for the daughters and their attire. My personal feeling is that I don't have to be anything other than a Christian to find it inappropriate. And I'll admit that I'm two faced on that issue. If my wife could pull off that look, I'd have a hard time squelching the desire to have her go out in public like that. As a Christian father, I would not condone my daughter dressing like that, or doing that from a bar stage. I wouldn't kick her out of the house, but I wouldn't be there in support either.

On side note, I think this a good discussion to have as it gets deep into many facets of practical Christian living.

I came away with the same sickening feeling and as a Christian and a father find it totally inappropriate and could not in any way, shape or form support her decision to do something like this.

executioner wrote:I came away with the same sickening feeling and as a Christian and a father find it totally inappropriate and could not in any way, shape or form support her decision to do something like this.

I am going to guess your kids are young. But even if not, as kids turn in to adults, they will make decisions you will not agree with. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where being this dogmatic might destroy your relationship with your child.

As to the video in question:

Brent - If Sue can post lyrics to question a Petra lead singer's activities, someone else can to. If you are going to get ...the way you did... about it, you probably should do so against BOTH posts/positions - as frankly both are a little silly.

Exe, you mentioned Louie as being invoved in the song when he clearly was not. Why did you let that drop?

Sue, you seem to think Greg was aware of the whole set list and actively participated in the whole show even though the article I posted mentions that it was his daughter (and another daughter) and her Band who were putting on a three part show. Only one part included some of Greg's solo work and she thought it would be fun to sing with him - for the first time ever. If you watch the third video so many are so upset about, it is very clear it is the last song of the night and that neither Louie or Greg were on stage when it started, and the daughters were happy to see their Dad jump up to do some backup singing. Do you, or anyone else KNOW that he even knew what song they were going to sing? Maybe it was just because he knew it was the last song?

I am sickened by the judgemental tone some of you have taken about this whole issue - and I know you probably could care less. We have no idea, even those of you who claim to have all sorts of inside info, what has happened between Greg and his daughters over the years. But here, they included him, and it was obviously a special night. I agree that the last song choice was poor, but based on my limited information/scope, neither it, nor the dress choices would ever make me consider not supporting my kids. I am glad to see Greg supporting his girls. They could always talk about the poor song choice later - because they are still talking...

I do wish Greg had never gotten on the stage for that last song just because it gave you all so much ammo. He probably regrets it on some level too, especially if he ever heard about threads like this one that are full of log-eyed splinter picking!

gman wrote: On side note, I think this a good discussion to have as it gets deep into many facets of practical Christian living.

You're right, it's a good discussion... someone is ALWAYS watching you, your behavior, your actions, and making a judgement call based on what they see. That judgement may be right or wrong, but people do make judgements.

Reminds me of a Petra song that contain the lyrics "actions speak louder than words."

Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessup: You can't handle the truth!

adpetrafan said it right! What you guys are doing here is sickening, and inmature. So many Farisees here. Its so obvious the bias here against Greg. John always gets a pass. I hope your churches dont have burning stakes in their front yards. This is sad.

I were in Greg's shoes, I would be there with my daughter too, which I actually do with my kids. I share all music with them and we are open to discuss what is convinient and what is not in a Christian view of things. I hope guys have the same opportunity with yours.

hey hey...I am not dissin' Greg for singing with his girls. That is something I can't do. How cool would that be? Singing secular music? I don't care. Nothing wrong with it.

Greg has the same ability as John, to do his thing before unsaved people, even covering secular songs, giving them a Christian spin, and doing so quite well.

All I am saying is while watching the video, my eyes were not on Greg, they were on legs and short skirts. All I was saying is that the dresses were too short for my comfort zone. This has nothing to do with Greg. He can't make them do anything they don't want to do.

Okay, I guess I need to get up on my soapbox again. You can shoot me later if you'd like.

First of all, there are people here who are biased against John too, so let's not take jabs and start the "Greg versus John" and "people who prefer John over Greg hate everyone" nonsense again.

Felipe, what exactly is it that John is supposed to be getting a free pass for? If you're referring to the show with Head East, Sue did explain what that was about in case you didn't see it. The person who brought that up has always had problems with Sue's posts and seems to always have to have the final word and always has to be right.

I watched the video with Greg and his girls and while I do think the point that the song wasn't exactly the ideal choice is a valid one, it does look like it's a spontaneous thing. Whatever the case, the young ladies would have to be at least over 18 and in many cases probably over 21 to sing in a place like this. They're big girls; they are old enough to make their own choices about how they dress and where they might work. Dad probably doesn't have a lot of say-so about that at this stage, other than to maybe make suggestions.

There is lots of less than ideal stuff on YouTube and there is the option of simply not watching it if it bothers you. As I said, if you don't want it ending up on YouTube, don't do it. That goes for anyone, not just the Petra folks. What I have problems with is not that someone might point out that it's not ideal, but that they would think it is more wrong for them than anyone else.

Steps off of soapbox and will probably just stay out of this discussion from this point.

Breaking news: The Apostle Paul was a pharisee. In fact he went a step further. Not only did he call brothers out, he demanded they get their act together. Guess we gotta throw away the bible.
Side note: who called out Greg or demanded anything from him? I missed that. This is a discussion about what's appropriate as a Christian. Greg and Co. just happen to be the one's that out the example on the table.

My point is that Sue made it sound like the Zeppelin tune was so indicent, when John sang about promoting drug use, and sang Beatle tunes. The Beatles even said that they were bigger than Jesus. All I am sayong is that God does not have ruler for Zeppelin tunes and one for Beatle tunes. I dont have a problem with either but if we are going to condemn one, why not both, there's no difference. And John is not a better Christian than Greg either or viceversa.

Sue, all I'm saying is that your words seem a little hypocritical to me and it seems I'm not the only one who noticed. You seem to have no problem finding a way to justify what John chose to do while at the same time condemning what Greg did. Personally, I have no problem with what either of them did, but if you are gonna throw stones, make sure there is no sin in your own camp.

Know what, I am tired of the bashing of both John and Greg. I am a fan of both and I will enjoy both of them. Treating these two talented performers will only hurt petra and put the chances of them being around for years to come at risk. As a 22 year old fan and did not get into them until the Jekyll and Hyde era I was not around for a whole lot of there years. I don't want this chance for people like me to get more of them to go down the toilet.

I personally don't have a problem with John or Greg singing secular tunes. I had no problem with the video of Mercy Me, and whoever they were touring with, in the hallway of a venue doing a cover of Michael Jackson's Beat It. I thought it was quite good.
I might raise an eyebrow depending on the lyrics being sung. My problem with the Greg video was the content of the lyrics in combination with the mini skirted girls dancing suggestively on the stage.
I might have a great relationship with my daughter, but if she's old enough to make that choice and does, I will tell her that I won't be there. We can still have a great relationship the rest of the time.
Part of Christian parenting involves setting standards and not supporting your children when they violate those standards. Different people may draw different lines. This particular scenario is an easy one for me to sort out. Others, maybe not so much.

adpetrafan wrote:

executioner wrote:I came away with the same sickening feeling and as a Christian and a father find it totally inappropriate and could not in any way, shape or form support her decision to do something like this.

I am going to guess your kids are young. But even if not, as kids turn in to adults, they will make decisions you will not agree with. I hope you never find yourself in a situation where being this dogmatic might destroy your relationship with your child.

As to the video in question:

Brent - If Sue can post lyrics to question a Petra lead singer's activities, someone else can to. If you are going to get ...the way you did... about it, you probably should do so against BOTH posts/positions - as frankly both are a little silly.

Exe, you mentioned Louie as being invoved in the song when he clearly was not. Why did you let that drop?

Sue, you seem to think Greg was aware of the whole set list and actively participated in the whole show even though the article I posted mentions that it was his daughter (and another daughter) and her Band who were putting on a three part show. Only one part included some of Greg's solo work and she thought it would be fun to sing with him - for the first time ever. If you watch the third video so many are so upset about, it is very clear it is the last song of the night and that neither Louie or Greg were on stage when it started, and the daughters were happy to see their Dad jump up to do some backup singing. Do you, or anyone else KNOW that he even knew what song they were going to sing? Maybe it was just because he knew it was the last song?

I am sickened by the judgemental tone some of you have taken about this whole issue - and I know you probably could care less. We have no idea, even those of you who claim to have all sorts of inside info, what has happened between Greg and his daughters over the years. But here, they included him, and it was obviously a special night. I agree that the last song choice was poor, but based on my limited information/scope, neither it, nor the dress choices would ever make me consider not supporting my kids. I am glad to see Greg supporting his girls. They could always talk about the poor song choice later - because they are still talking...

I do wish Greg had never gotten on the stage for that last song just because it gave you all so much ammo. He probably regrets it on some level too, especially if he ever heard about threads like this one that are full of log-eyed splinter picking!

I will answer the 2 points you brought towards me.

1. My daughter is only 5 presently and we as a family are doing everything we can to make sure she knows right/wrong but also realizes what God means to us and how he loves her no matter what her mistakes in life are. I will tell you that I will always love my daughter with everything I got and protect her also, and she knows that I will love her no matter what; I do realize that when she is a teenager and adult she will make some choices that I can't and won't support and at that time she will know how I feel, but she will also know that I will always love her and there will always be a home to come to if she so chooses. I would NOT have been there to support her if that was her on stage.
2. I've watch the video twice which was two too many times and I am not sure if Louie was on stage at the time and I never said Louie was playing just assumed he was because of the other videos; If he was not there than I owe him apology and if also he chose to sit it out then kudos to him and I thank him for that.

I paused the video, as pointed out, and it appeared to be some other buy wearing a different shirt. I gathered from comments on the videos that Louie was only there for the Greg set.