Concerns

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
petranite
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Re: Concerns

Post by petranite » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:38 am

I agree many times it is the artist who decides. I just wanted to clarify with the OP that we are not discussing other artists but rather John & John. so i can speak to them directly on this subject.
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Re: Concerns

Post by brent » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:33 pm

GOD IS NOT LIMITED TO ALTER CALLS. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAVED WITHOUT ALTER CALLS. ALTER CALLS AS THEY ARE NAMED AND PRACTICED TODAY ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE, AND ARE MORE OF AN AMERICAN INVENTION THAN ANYTHING. THEY SHOULD NOT BE THE BAROMETER FOR MINISTRY LEGITIMACY!
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Re: Concerns

Post by brent » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:46 pm

Here are some other considerations that some of you might not be aware of.

When there are multiple bands at a show, the show is structured. Everything is about building anticipation for the last act.

Buyers have options of performance time. Performance time dictates song selection. (Song selection must be planned out to maximize vocal longevity and range. John is one of the few guys though that doesn't do this religiously. He drinks Coke before walking on, doesn't go through a big work out, sings demanding songs back to back. He has joked about that.) Song selection dictates how much time is spent between songs, etc. The Buyers expect a greater percentage of music most of the time.

Traffic flow. Some venues may have limited aisle space. Traffic cannot block aisles for extended periods of time. There are codes to consider. I know of churches that must end on the dot exactly or else traffic on a campus is completely jacked. If Osteen's church is out late, they have to pay the city $60k in fines because of the traffic issues they cause.
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Re: Concerns

Post by wildmanpetra » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:27 am

GOD IS NOT LIMITED TO ALTER CALLS. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAVED WITHOUT ALTER CALLS. ALTER CALLS AS THEY ARE NAMED AND PRACTICED TODAY ARE NOT IN THE BIBLE, AND ARE MORE OF AN AMERICAN INVENTION THAN ANYTHING. THEY SHOULD NOT BE THE BAROMETER FOR MINISTRY LEGITIMACY!

Understood, and I agree that Altar calls are not the only way to spread the Gospel. Many have been saved without them. But, what I believe Scripture does support is the spreading an advancement of the Gospel. When someone has the opportunity at a moment in time to speak to a crowd of people regarding their Salvation and call them to a decision and commitment, I believe that opportunity must be taken.
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Re: Concerns

Post by brent » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:52 am

What do you think John is singing about all that time before he gives an invitation to accept Christ? He generally talks about his own testimony before then. The music has the gospel of Christ. The little stories John gives about the songs give insight into the vocals, especially The Grafting. It's not like the last part of the concert is the first time people know what the concert is all about.

I hate to break it to you guys, but people are saved before they do works we make them do out of religious repetition. The moment you believe is the work of the Holy Spirit and that moment of belief must occur before we make somebody bow their head, stop looking around, sing the first, second and last verse of Just As I Am, raise their hand, walk the aisle, say a prayer, stand in front of people, fill out a card, etc. Come on. Oh, yeah, if you are one of those that believes you have to wait for the holy spirit and speak in tongues, you have to do that. How do you people reconcile that? John doesn't do that? Are you saying John does not believe in salvation correctly? This is what some Assemblies of God and Charismatics believe. They make people wait in a room until it happens. Rod Parsley does this.
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Re: Concerns

Post by wildmanpetra » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:46 am

"What do you think John is singing about all that time before he gives an invitation to accept Christ? He generally talks about his own testimony before then. The music has the gospel of Christ. The little stories John gives about the songs give insight into the vocals, especially The Grafting. It's not like the last part of the concert is the first time people know what the concert is all about.

I hate to break it to you guys, but people are saved before they do works we make them do out of religious repetition. The moment you believe is the work of the Holy Spirit and that moment of belief must occur before we make somebody bow their head, stop looking around, sing the first, second and last verse of Just As I Am, raise their hand, walk the aisle, say a prayer, stand in front of people, fill out a card, etc. Come on. Oh, yeah, if you are one of those that believes you have to wait for the holy spirit and speak in tongues, you have to do that. How do you people reconcile that? John doesn't do that? Are you saying John does not believe in salvation correctly? This is what some Assemblies of God and Charismatics believe. They make people wait in a room until it happens. Rod Parsley does this."

I apologize for not clarifying enough, but again, let me say I agree with all of your points. Except I can't get away from the opportunity one has to preach/speak the Gospel, especially as there might be someone there who never heard it before. I am in no way saying that God isn't already working in the individuals life, or that they need an evidence such as tongues. But, what I am saying is that people need a moment where they make a commitment to follow Christ. This is what Petra's ministry was based upon. Now, saying that, I do know that God speaks through songs and even through instrumentals. But, nothing can replace the verbal proclamation of the Gospel of Christ. This has been what God has used since the prophets in the Old Testament. I also am very much aware that many have taken advantage of this. For example I know many people who will tell you they were saved over 20 times, etc. I also know of others who went forward just because of the emotion involved, but never lived for Christ. I get the hypocrisy etc. But, that does not take away what God has done, is doing and will continue to do in those moments when the proclamation is made.
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Re: Concerns

Post by sickasadog » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:04 pm

I don't think altar calls should be included in every concert. I have been present for many of these in my life, and I agree that it may be a legitimate opportunity for salvation in some cases. However, I think that this kind of practice turns away many people from organized Christianity. These people include many introverts, people who have trust issues stemming from many sources (abuse, bullying), and those that see people insincerely answering the call.

Now, I'm one of the first people to defend many of the practices of various denominations that are ridiculed by ignorant people in society and the media. However, I have a lot of trouble defending altar calls.
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Re: Concerns

Post by Dan » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:36 pm

I think Petra is past the point of youth and mass ministry, I see gigs in intimate settings with fans, family and other Christians...Petra or CP haven't broken any ground in decades. There are many years ahead for an intimate setup, not as a touring rock band. (with exception for Brazil & Argentina for farewell Petra with Paul Simmons) IIguys from Petra is what I want to see, that is where it is at for me. I honestly think there is no lineup that could make the band go off again with a bang, other than the Dream Team, and we know that is no possible.
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Re: Concerns

Post by gman » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:38 am

Daniel wrote:I think Petra is past the point of youth and mass ministry, I see gigs in intimate settings with fans, family and other Christians...Petra or CP haven't broken any ground in decades. There are many years ahead for an intimate setup, not as a touring rock band. (with exception for Brazil & Argentina for farewell Petra with Paul Simmons) IIguys from Petra is what I want to see, that is where it is at for me. I honestly think there is no lineup that could make the band go off again with a bang, other than the Dream Team, and we know that is no possible.
The current lineup is not doing shows, but I don't think it is because they blow, or because no one wants to see them. Again, the show I saw recently was a packed house. They could play there again, and it would be the same thing. I don't know why they are not doing a lot shows. My speculative guess is that the band doesn't have someone working their tail off to get them gigs, the band is not interested in doing it themselves, and they can't afford to pay someone to do it. That's the feeling I get.
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Re: Concerns

Post by brent » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:40 pm

The kids that go to the big concerts who have been through here are into other artists. Skillet isn't even that big of a deal here. So...if you want a band called Petra to sell, the band needs to be comprised of a group of kids willing to start over and work their way up. Every time Petra starts out to do something, they ARE starting over. They are competing with all of the other acts out there. It doesn't matter that they are better or built this city. The kids like kids and all the crap that kids like to play because they suck. bwuhahahaha.
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Re: Concerns

Post by gman » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:36 pm

The show I was at had a thousand plus people, maybe more, who were Petra fans. Maybe some friends and family in there also. Most of them are not part of The Petra Zone. I'm inclined to think that there are areas where Petra could do shows and draw a decent crowd. The question for me then, is why aren't they doing shows. I don't know that answer. Again, I'm inclined to think that the band can't afford to pay someone to get them shows, they are too busy or not interested in doing it themselves, or no one is willing to do it for free. I realize there is more to it, but I say if they really wanted to do shows, and someone was working their tail off to get them shows, there would be shows.
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Re: Concerns

Post by zman7720000 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:46 am

The question for me then, is why aren't they doing shows.
Maybe they don't want to!
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Re: Concerns

Post by gman » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:46 am

zman7720000 wrote:
The question for me then, is why aren't they doing shows.
Maybe they don't want to!
I'm pretty sure they want to do shows. They seemed excited at the Manheim show to be out doing shows. It seemed at the time that they were planning, at least in their minds, on doing more in 2014. Like someone alluded to earlier, maybe they are comfortable with only occasional shows here and there, that come about with little effort on their part.
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Re: Concerns

Post by Dan » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:11 pm

They don't get shows because there is no Louie, no Slick... no Lawry... Ronny... nothing but IIguys from what people remember of Petra...
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Re: Concerns

Post by George Harrison » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:42 pm

gman wrote:
Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:49 am
That said, I used to get really bent out of shape when the festival would book bands or artists that brought nothing to the table beyond a positive message (Stacie O, Switchfoot, Owl City come to mind), but I've come to realize that from a marketing and sales perspectice, people like the music of those artists. More tickets will be sold and more people will come, and that ultimately means more people being exposed to good Christian music and the gospel message.
Just some thoughts that came to mind.
As an avid Owl City fan, I should say that though the majority of his songs aren't spiritual/religious, he has made many, many Christian songs also. He had so many in a few albums that some fans started complaining about it. Some examples: "Always", "My Everything", "Galaxies", "Meteor Shower" and a number of others.

In regard to switchfoot though, it is true that there are very few of their songs which are obviously Christian, though what is Christian and what isn't is hard to decide sometimes anyway... there are non Christian bands which have Christian sounding songs ("Jesus", by Queen comes to mind), and Christian bands whose lyrics don't seem so different from mainstream bands.
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