I really miss Petra

Talk about Petra albums, songs, and concerts.
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Dan
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I really miss Petra

Post by Dan » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:44 am

I've been going through my stuff as I prepare to move and I have found alot of Petra stuff I have collected over the years, many videos, records and stuff.

So have spent many hours watching and listening to them when I should be packing my swag, and I'm listening to one of the live vids.. thinking I can't believe these guys are not touring anymore.

I think for me that period between 87 - 90 was what inspires my music tastes today in modern music, and the biblical words will always stick in my mind..

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE GUTLESS BANDS TODAY THAT WONT STAND UP FOR THE NAME OF JESUS!

If I was to ever get in a modern rock band again I would do exactly what Petra did and stand up take a stand for Jesus.

Bob, John,Johnny, Ronny & Louie - miss you guys

Hoping for one last reunion in the US (dream on)
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Re: I really miss Petra

Post by Jonathan » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:27 am

danielaussie wrote:WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE GUTLESS BANDS TODAY THAT WONT STAND UP FOR THE NAME OF JESUS!
What's an example of a gutless band?

Jesus bands are out there. Sometimes you have to look a little harder.
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Re: I really miss Petra

Post by gman » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:31 pm

Jonathan wrote:
danielaussie wrote:WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE GUTLESS BANDS TODAY THAT WONT STAND UP FOR THE NAME OF JESUS!
What's an example of a gutless band?

Jesus bands are out there. Sometimes you have to look a little harder.
I think i get where he is going. I'll name a couple names. Switchfoot comes to mind. Also, Stryper during their Against the Law period.
I believe he is referring to any band claiming to be Christian, yet you could listen to their stuff over and over and never catch that they are Christian.
Not to start a war; this is my opinion. If someone who writes music is 100%, or close to it, into the Christian faith, as I understand it, their lyrics will reflect that. It's who they are and they can't help. What they write is a reflection of what's in their heart. They wouldn't write generic lyrics that didn't represent their faith because their conscience, being rooted in that faith, wouldn't allow it. Again, that's my opinion. I read another thread somewhere else where a person brought up the oft used comparison of a christian musician and a christian plumber, electrician, etc. That doesn't really work to me. Paul was a tent make. What he said in conversation with people was a reflection of his faith. The tentmaking was not. You can't really compare the lyric writing of a christian musician with the toilet installation of a plumber.
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Post by brent » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:58 pm

Well, you are reading things into the meaning of Paul's words that he did not say and creating a personal conviction out of it. What he said had nothing to do with vocation. Unless a job is immoral, producing product and services designed to aid in the exclusive act of sinning, there is no new job tied to the new birth in Christ.

If someone can do God's work and make a living at it then that's great. I used to myself. But not everyone can, nor is it expected that you should. Some musicians do work for a living. Paul remained a tent maker when not in prison, etc. He had people working with him and for him. Making tents paid his bills. He did not stop that when he became a Christian. He just began living for God and doing God's work. There were no secular tents and Christian tents. Tents are tents.

Music is music. There is no secular music and Christian music. The lyrics, presentation and intentions of the performer make it one or the other.

The bible says that we should sing to God, sing to each other, etc. The bible also mentions music for war, music for dance/rejoicing, etc. Sorry Baptists. It is ok to dance. Just not that way that you get caught doing at the bars.

Let's define Christian band.

To me a Christian band is one hopefully comprised of believers, writing Christian lyrics, singing to Christian people exclusively, etc. They can be working for a living or gratis.

There are a ton of Christians at work in the music business, who are not playing Christian music. That is a ministry as much as it is a job.

There are clean bands. They might be perceived to be Christian because of some lyrical content or marketing spin, but they are not.

Christian bands that are exclusively in that market should be expected to play that stuff. Christians outside of the Christian market should not be.

Personally, I would not have a problem with any of it. I understand all of the various situations. I know some people personally in all of them and I know their testimony.

The CCM market is to P&W for me. So much so that I hate hearing it in church. It is over exposed and meaningless. Most of it is wrtten for the female. It is not often that I can listen to a band that sounds Christian, when I know darn well that they are not. It doesn't sit well with me. So I would rather listen to my secular favs. I may not agree with everything they say, but there is no doubt where they are coming from. So I can deal with that much better. Does that make sense?
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Post by brent » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:57 pm

petrafan1 wrote:if brent said it , it must be right.
Daniel and I have talked off-line about this. We both have different takes, but we are still friends. It's ok to disagree.

Three people have given their opinions so far. That's it. That's why I gave MY OPINION on the definition of a Christian band. There is no he's wrong I am right thing happening here. I did come to a conclusion in the first sentence.

Let me ask you. Do YOU believe that the bible says that new life in Christ means a new job that only provides Christian goods and services to Christians? Can a Christian be a witness on the job that has nothing to do with Christianity? Why can't a musician, artist, plumber, mechanic, etc?

You obviously have something buggin ya'. If you want to use me as your whippin' post then go for it. I was raised an Ind. Fund. Baptist. I am used to abuse.
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Re: I really miss Petra

Post by Dan » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:58 am

Jonathan wrote:
danielaussie wrote:WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE GUTLESS BANDS TODAY THAT WONT STAND UP FOR THE NAME OF JESUS!
What's an example of a gutless band?

Jesus bands are out there. Sometimes you have to look a little harder.
I think one that goes under the banner of a "Christian label" it has the support of church's on their tours because it's under that label, then reveals it's lyrics as nothing different from any other secular band.

If it wasn't for them using a Christian label they wouldn't be known anyway, the record labels have alot to answer for, which is an abuse of what consumers once trusted.
brent wrote:
petrafan1 wrote:if brent said it , it must be right.
Daniel and I have talked off-line about this. We both have different takes, but we are still friends. It's ok to disagree.
It's true we're still mates, we all have different opinions on this, even when I don't agree I try to understand where the person is coming from with their opinion. I think you can understand why someone thinks a certain way without agreeing with their point of view. - another opinion

Brent does know the music industry more so than anyone else I've noticed that posts here, this will form much stronger opinions because of this knowledge.
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Post by separateunion » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:01 am

I see nothing wrong with a Christian band under the banner of a Christian label ministering to Christians, but I don't see what the uproar is over bands composed of Christian members focusing on the mainstream market. If we're worried about evangelizing, wouldn't this be the best way to do it? Be performing for a crowd whom the majority of are unsaved as opposed to being under a Christian label which almost assures that 98% of your audience is comprised of Christians? As far as lyrics are concerned, I prefer lyrics that are subtle, not obtusely obvious and worried about how many JPMs (Jesus per Minute) are being pumped out.

You can complain about a band like Switchfoot not having lyrics that are obviously Christian, but I'd say it's worse to make "Christian" music that is mediocre at best and generally a ripoff of whatever is the most popular trend in the mainstream market. Christian music has, for the most part, been wholly uncreative and has merely piggy backed whatever works in the mainstream. That right there make me ashamed to listen to Christian music as a representation of Christ.

You want to know why bands like Switchfoot have jumped ship? The Christian music industry is becoming a joke and is far too restrictive on it's artists with all the legalism and judgmental Christians pointing fingers. I applaud bands like Switchfoot, Skillet and Jars of Clay for going mainstream, allowing themselves to grow as musicians and giving themselves the ability to be far more accessible to a much larger group of people. Then there are bands like Paramore, one of the hottest bands on MTV, who are very clear about their faith but don't feel the need to beat people over the head about it. I'd much rather listen to these bands than the craptastic cookie cutter bands "Christian" music is popping out of the oven.
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Post by JMBJR72 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:03 pm

Petra during the height there time was invited to Farm Aid which had secular bands. In fact, John talks about being there and how they were received. My opinion is Petra is one of a kind and you may never see group of guys do what they did! Thats why you will never see a band like that ever again!

I personally would love to see a reunion but the chance of that happen is null.

Everybody has opinion because everybody has there views of Petra and a reunion
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well...

Post by gman » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:05 pm

I shouldn't pick on Switchfoot because I really don't know how they would label themselves. If they reject the label of Christian band, and rather consider themselves as a band with members who call themselves Christians, that's fine. You don't necessarily get their faith from the lyrics. So, for any band in that position, just be straight up and don't claim to be 100% into your faith, when the lyrics don't reflect that. That's my only point. Anyone, regardless of how they label themselves, putting their lyrics out there as a reflection of them, if they are strong in their faith, the lyrics will definitely reflect that.
You might be able to fake it, but you can't go the other way and put out lyrics that don't reflect your faith and still claim that you are on fire. Any band or artist that I have ever seen that went from being weak in their lyrics to being on fire, admitted after the fact that they were not where they needed to be spiritually. I just maintain that you are what you say. It might be true that someone can listen to a lyrically weak album and then go back and get a hold of an older, lyrically strong album, but that doesn't change my point.
I don't think the plumber, electrician, etc. is an equal comparison.
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Re: Petra

Post by Dan » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:36 pm

JMBJR72 wrote:Petra during the height there time was invited to Farm Aid which had secular bands. In fact, John talks about being there and how they were received. My opinion is Petra is one of a kind and you may never see group of guys do what they did! Thats why you will never see a band like that ever again!

That's right, and they performed creed too, it's unimaginable for a modern band to do that these days.
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Post by gman » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:38 pm

brent wrote:Paul remained a tent maker when not in prison, etc. He had people working with him and for him. Making tents paid his bills. He did not stop that when he became a Christian. He just began living for God and doing God's work. There were no secular tents and Christian tents. Tents are tents.
That was my point. I see a difference between a christian who makes tents, install toilets, builds stuff, etc., and a christian who writes lyrics. What people do in other professions says nothing about their faith one way or the other, assuming it's not a profession that dishonors God. I believe songwriting does say something about your faith.
If a christian wants to write and perform songs that don't really express their faith, they can do that. I'm just saying that some people point to christians in other professions and suggest that someone like a Billy Graham, or a Bob Hartman, that is totally dialed into their faith, could write songs and leave their faith out. I personally don't buy it.
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Re: Petra

Post by separateunion » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:43 pm

danielaussie wrote:
JMBJR72 wrote:Petra during the height there time was invited to Farm Aid which had secular bands. In fact, John talks about being there and how they were received. My opinion is Petra is one of a kind and you may never see group of guys do what they did! Thats why you will never see a band like that ever again!

That's right, and they performed creed too, it's unimaginable for a modern band to do that these days.
Five Iron Frenzy toured with mainstream artists and played on tours like Ska Against Racism. You'd be hard pressed to find a band more passionate about their beliefs and while every song wasn't necessarily a dose of the gospel, they have some of the deepest, most insightful lyrics I've ever had the pleasure of hearing.
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Post by separateunion » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:53 pm

gman wrote:
brent wrote:Paul remained a tent maker when not in prison, etc. He had people working with him and for him. Making tents paid his bills. He did not stop that when he became a Christian. He just began living for God and doing God's work. There were no secular tents and Christian tents. Tents are tents.
That was my point. I see a difference between a christian who makes tents, install toilets, builds stuff, etc., and a christian who writes lyrics. What people do in other professions says nothing about their faith one way or the other, assuming it's not a profession that dishonors God. I believe songwriting does say something about your faith.
Everything you do says something about your faith, that's the issue. A band shouldn't be boxed into a corner where they are told that songs that mention Jesus, God or the gospel are the only legitimate songs that express their faith. With the example of Switchfoot, their faith is and always has been clearly stated in what they write and how they represent themselves. They didn't suddenly change their writing style when they went mainstream and just because they aren't pumping out maximum JPMs doesn't mean that they aren't writing about their faith. It's the difference between subtle, poetic lyrics and uncreatively obvious lyrics.

If I was a writer, would I only be allowed to write about my faith? I guess Tolkien missed the mark, then. All Christian journalists who don't exclusively cover Christian events would also be in the wrong. You're mistaking "not mentioning God in everything they write" for "not expressing their faith through their work".

I think this quote sums up my feelings on the topic:
In an interview with the BBC, Josh Farro [guitarist for Paramore] stated "Our faith is very important to us. It's obviously going to come out in our music because if someone believes something, then their worldview is going to come out in anything they do. But we're not out here to preach to kids, we're out here because we love music."
Not all are called to be preachers. Petra felt that they were, and that's fine, but that standard should not be held to bands who don't feel as if that is their calling.
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Post by Jonathan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:49 am

Agreed. I appreciate bands like Daniel Amos and the 77s and the Choir who make no secret of their world view, but don't pump every song full of explicit literal gospel. That's not to say they blunt the truth, but sometimes I'm not in the mood to be preached to.

Christian radio is impossible for me to listen to. I find most of it repetitive, plodding, and fulla buzzwords. CCM P/W on the radio doesn't draw me into worship at all, and maybe that's not the intent. But that's just me.

And it's all about me.
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Re: Petra

Post by Dan » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:37 am

separateunion wrote:
danielaussie wrote:
JMBJR72 wrote:Petra during the height there time was invited to Farm Aid which had secular bands. In fact, John talks about being there and how they were received. My opinion is Petra is one of a kind and you may never see group of guys do what they did! Thats why you will never see a band like that ever again!

That's right, and they performed creed too, it's unimaginable for a modern band to do that these days.
Five Iron Frenzy toured with mainstream artists and played on tours like Ska Against Racism. You'd be hard pressed to find a band more passionate about their beliefs and while every song wasn't necessarily a dose of the gospel, they have some of the deepest, most insightful lyrics I've ever had the pleasure of hearing.

Five Iron Frenzy.. yeah this one is a classic

Five Iron Frenzy - Kitty Doggy lyrics


Hi, and welcome to our practice, kids.
Five Iron Frenzy, thanks a lot.
Kitty Doggy, you're the one,
You're the one I want for today.
Yeah, I need you Kitty Doggy.
Yeah, I love you.
You're my Kitty, you're my Doggy,
You're my Kitty and my Doggy.
Kitty Doggy I love you.
Kitty Doggy Kitty Doggy I love you.
You make me feel like school.
Something brand new,
Some hair that's in my shoe.
I have a hot Kitty.
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