This thread cannot be ignored!!!

[Shell]

Sure, prayer helps their ministry. So does buying their CDs. And sure, the Bible teaches us about obeying God instead of men, and part of that is not taking what's not yours. You're not gonna rationalize yourself out of this one with me and David, friend. And I sure hope you never get caught downloading stuff.

[PetfanInCt]

Sure, prayer helps their ministry. So does buying their CDs. And sure, the Bible teaches us about obeying God instead of men, and part of that is not taking what's not yours. You're not gonna rationalize yourself out of this one with me and David, friend. And I sure hope you never get caught downloading stuff.

Shell

You and Dave are the coolest. You called me friend . I already own 99 percent of what I like from Petra. People complain about downloading.Then you have companies like Word records who signed Petra for what 13 years then fired them, then after they fired them, put out 2 cd compiliations of Petra songs...Words records is a bunch of losers if you ask me..

Dave,

You called me a freeloader. I got a kick outa that. I've been called many things in my life, I have been called worse. I will gladly add freeloader to the list. However I know that I love Jesus and hes my Lord and Savior.

I will continue to download and I will continue to buy as well.

Hey Love to you Dave and Shell

Godbless to the both of you

In Christ

[LexingtonPethead]

[
Dave

God wants us to obey his lawd. He doesnt want us to be slave to mans law

It doesnt hurt Petra or they're ministry they have been doing this for 30 years. Even with the file sharing going on Jekyll and Hyde is still selling and they are on a big tour...John is still asking for altar calls to the stage and bringing youth to Christ....They are still selling albums. New believers and fans are springing up all the time.

If Bob came up to me. I would only ask to borrow The one album I want but dont have yet and that is Beat The System. Why do you assume he would say no..Its not his collection anyway Its God's collection

I pray for Petra and the members of Petra. The prayers help there ministry..

Godbless

InChrist

As a brother in Christ, I have to tell you - with all due sincerety - on this issue, scripture does not back you up.

The fact of the matter is, Jesus instructs his followers to OBEY the law of the land. I don't have Bible references at hand, but inequivacally, there is no doubt that distributing copyrighted material that does not belong to you is stealing. It is the same as walking into a Christian retailer and swiping CDs right off the shelf. There's no difference at all.

Now, you can use the same rationale to say it's okay to steal CDs from a Christian retailer because God will make it up to him, and that it's God's music, and that God will bless the band, and that they really don't need your money because it's all God's money and God's music anyway. This is really what you're saying... and I hope you'll finally see this is pure folly.

Maybe stealing one or two CDs won't be missed by that so-called retailer... just like downloading a few songs here and there off the internet... but if there are literally tens or hundreds of people lifting CDs off the shelf and walking out the door without paying for them, that would seriously impact the ability of the retailer to stay in business.

Downloading and distributing copyrighted material when you don't own the copyright is just plain stealing, my friend. I don't know how this can be made any clearer. This hurts many people involved who depend on revenue generated from CD sales, but most importantly, it hurts the band.

[LexingtonPethead]

Dave,

You called me a freeloader. I got a kick outa that. I've been called many things in my life, I have been called worse. I will gladly add freeloader to the list. However I know that I love Jesus and hes my Lord and Savior.

I will continue to download and I will continue to buy as well.

Hey Love to you Dave and Shell

Godbless to the both of you

In Christ

PetfanInCt,

I really didn't mean that in a personal way, but I can see your point. I sure do wish I could change your mind on this. But it looks like we'll have to just shake hands and agree to disagree.

I hope you buy more than you download.

[Shell]

David pretty much summed it up, I won't add any more to that. I wasn't being sarcastic when I called you friend, I consider the people on the Zone my friends, even if I don't always agree with them.

[Schrodyr]

Everyone always talks about how God will support the band if they're doing the right thing. Doesn't matter if people download or copy their music for free, cause if they trust God, He will take care of them.

I don't disagree with this, but let's look at it at a different light.

When you sin, or do anything that's wrong, it hurts you more than anyone around you. Yea, other people are effected by it, but eventually, it all comes back to you, because you are the one that committed the sin.

You maybe saying to yourself that God doesn't really care about downloading.

Why are you downloading in the first place? If you're on a limited income, is that really an excuse to download music? If the band should trust God with their ministry and trust Him to supply all of their needs, maybe you should trust God to supply the money to buy the CDs.

As for Beat The System, go buy it here:

http://www.musichristian.com/sys/produc ... ODUCT=1112

[MJanke]

It doesnt matter how many mp3's are downloaded. Jesus will make sure the artist is adequetly funded according to his will....
and that would mean that Jesus would make sure enough products are sold if the artist is doing Gods will
God is above any amount of downloading.

That is absolutely false.

Let's logically extend what you say above - we all might as well walk into a Christian bookstore, load up our cars with books, Bibles, CDs, framed art, and communion trays. And then leave and not pay for it.

After all, "Jesus will make sure the artist is adequately funded according to his will."

You are mocking God, my friend. In the name of getting free stuff you are making a mockery not only of the sovereignty of God but also His Word and the Christian life, which is supposed to be lived as a servant, in humility, and in obedience.

To paraphrase Rick Warren, "it's not about you."

Stealing is stealing. And what you are trying to justify is stealing, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or spiritualize it. God does not smile upon that, God does not support that, and God does not condone that. We are commanded in the Bible to obey the laws of the land and the authorities placed above us. We are also commanded, in explicit language not to steal. And we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourself, to treat others as we would like to be treated, and to lay down our lives for our friends. All of the above equate to putting our greed and our wants secondary and placing our obedience to God primary - which means we don't steal just because we can get away with it.

What is your chosen profession? Perhaps the rest of the church should come and help ourselves to your work and not pay you. After all, Jesus would make sure you were adequately funded, right?

[PetfanInCt]

It doesnt matter how many mp3's are downloaded. Jesus will make sure the artist is adequetly funded according to his will....
and that would mean that Jesus would make sure enough products are sold if the artist is doing Gods will
God is above any amount of downloading.

That is absolutely false.

Let's logically extend what you say above - we all might as well walk into a Christian bookstore, load up our cars with books, Bibles, CDs, framed art, and communion trays. And then leave and not pay for it.

After all, "Jesus will make sure the artist is adequately funded according to his will."

You are mocking God, my friend. In the name of getting free stuff you are making a mockery not only of the sovereignty of God but also His Word and the Christian life, which is supposed to be lived as a servant, in humility, and in obedience.

To paraphrase Rick Warren, "it's not about you."

Stealing is stealing. And what you are trying to justify is stealing, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or spiritualize it. God does not smile upon that, God does not support that, and God does not condone that. We are commanded in the Bible to obey the laws of the land and the authorities placed above us. We are also commanded, in explicit language not to steal. And we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourself, to treat others as we would like to be treated, and to lay down our lives for our friends. All of the above equate to putting our greed and our wants secondary and placing our obedience to God primary - which means we don't steal just because we can get away with it.

What is your chosen profession? Perhaps the rest of the church should come and help ourselves to your work and not pay you. After all, Jesus would make sure you were adequately funded, right?

About the mocking stuff chilll. I've been thinking about this. Some people have a problem with the file sharing aspect of this whole topic and I can understand that and respect that.

Do people here have a problem with making copies of cds they own to friends and family.

You asked me what my chosen profession is. I hate to tell you this but the church people wont be coming to me to get any of my work for free. I'm on disability, I dont work. I stay at home and do housework and take care of my son before and after school.

My wife brings home an income but we are pretty much in the lower income brackets. So I like free things. But I do pay for my Petra cd's I cant buy them as frequently as I would like but I have 13 of em..

So because I get Social Security and some state assistance i guess I'm not only a freeloader but I get government handouts.....

Godbless to all the Petheads here

In Christ

[LexingtonPethead]

Do people here have a problem with making copies of cds they own to friends and family.

My take on making copies of CDs you own by having paid for them is that we have the right of "fair use".

In other words, if I want to make a backup copy of a CD for my own personal use, I believe we have the right to do that. That's called fair use.

In this instance, I have paid for my CD, and I am not preventing anyone else from paying for theirs.

We do NOT have the right to make copies of said CDs to distribute to our family or friends, whether we paid for the original or not. That is against the law.

Now, I don't have a background in copyright law, but this seems fair to me and follows the intent of the law as I see it.

Anyone disagree?

[Corval]

Please

stop of being rude one to each other.
Ok we will not have the show. Final point.

Artur

[Corval]

Please
do not fight...

[Shell]

I don't think anyone's being rude, Artur, it's actually been pretty civil. I for one have said all I'm going to, I think enough has been said.

[Michael]

I think you're right, Shell... I think this thread has been extremely calm considering the nature of the discussion. How about that, boys and girls... we're learning to play well together! hehe

[executioner]

The law is that you are allowed to copy, but you are not allowed to earn a profit of any kind off their material. That is why I have a BIG problem with these Record Companies because they are using these artists to make BIG money and are not giving the artist their due.

[PetraFan007]

thanks michael, this is good cuz i started it...I was a little arrogant at first I admit, but I still mean what I said in a non-harsh way. Thanks guys for not getting mad at me.