Edward wrote:I have no statistics. I only know what I see.
Then what you have is an impression based only on events you have witnessed. You must be careful about stating such impressions as objective fact. Saying, "I get the impression from what I have seen that most Pentecostals are WOF," would be one thing. To state, as if you had done or had access to scientifically conducted studies, "Most Pentecostals are WOF," is misleading and dishonest … not to mention incorrect.
Edward wrote:If you look on Benny Hinn's stage at his events, the pastors seated behind him are the local, regional and national leaders of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.
There's a lot more than just Pentecostals up there. Hinn isn't picky. But you seem to think that being there indicates support of his teachings. That's an awfully big leap. One thing you will notice among Pentecostals is our willingness to work with those with whose theology we disagree in order to reach the lost for Christ. Of course our local leaders are going to show up when they're invited. We know that there will be lots of hurting people show up there who will need ministry when Benny leaves. It would be
irresponsible not to be there in order to make that connection with them right away.
Edward wrote:There are more for him than against.Â
When it comes to Christ, you are either for Him or against Him. But when it comes to human beings, there's a lot more gray area. We can oppose his
teachings without being "against" him as a person.
As an Assemblies of God minister myself, I must say that pretty much all of my colleagues agree with me on this. WOF doctrine is false, and we will teach the truth, but Hinn and other have a judge far greater than us.
Your statement that "more are for him than against" goes against everything I have seen and heard, and I don't think George Barna has ever done a survey that confirms or contradicts your assertion. Should we see if we can convince him to help us out?
In fact, the "Deception in the church" website, a decidedly anti-Pentecostal website, had this to say about the supposed support Benny gets from the Pentecostal movement in general in
this article
Terry Peretti, who works with AG missionaries in Europe, filed this report on Hinn's Rome Crusade:
"The Benny Hinn crusade held in Rome November 9 and 10, saw the largest gathering of evangelicals ever at one place and one time in Italy. Several reliable sources estimated that around 5,000 people attended the crusade.
"The crusade proved to be disastrous in that the Italian Assemblies of God boycotted the meetings which left the meeting to be supported by the independent Pentecostal groups. Of the independent groups, several pulled out of the crusade effort because of what they felt was being 'forced' upon them. They did not want to be party to what appeared as a TBN American TV show designed to be that, a 'big show.'
"Several other independent pastors along with their people were 'shocked' the first night because Hinn never once opened his Bible or preached. The second night the rest were shocked by Hinn's attempt to 'ecumenicalize' the crusade by courting the Catholic church and talking about meeting with the Pope. The interpreter refused to continue interpreting and another interpreter had to be called to the platform. The Italian music group refused to come to the platform to sing when they were called.
"The Italian independent Pentecostal pastors have agreed to meet and sign a declaration of disassociazione [disassociation] from Benny Hinn and his crusades. The Italian believers do not want to close the door on the Holy Spirit, but they don't want to close the door on the preaching of the Word of God either. It appears that Benny Hinn will never be invited back to Italy again, at least not by the evangelicals."
Edward wrote:Benny has been an Assemblies of God pastor,Â
Look, he passed the test, had the education required, and promised to abide by our constitution and bylaws. At the time, he had recanted much of his WOF teachings (though he has clearly drifted back toward them). Right or wrong, we decided to give him a chance. The details are a little sketchy, but the relationship didn't last long. The AG believes in confidentiality and won't say much about Hinn's resignation. Hinn did resign, and by some reports claimed to have been pressured to do so. However, the AG will not reveal confidential details, and I've not even found a statement I can confirm to be Hinn's on the matter. All we know is that as of 1996, he is not an AG Minister any more.
Edward wrote:Some of the biggest teachers in the WOF movement are Pentecostals and Charismatics.Â
Again, that's like saying "Fred Phelps is a Baptist". Does the fact that Phelps calls himself a Baptist prove that all Baptists believe God hates homosexuals and that God is personally killing our soldiers overseas? Of course not. So stop thinking that the fact that WOF teachers
call themselves Pentecostal somehow implies that Pentecostals support WOF heresies. Do Baptists believe that God hates homosexuals? Surely they do, since Fred Phelps does.
Edward wrote:Â Study up on them, their roots and what their churches teach.
If by "them" you mean Pentecostal churches, I've been one of the ones teaching it since 1994. If by "them" you mean "WOF Teachers", I know all about their roots and I've been teaching against their doctrines since … well … 1994.
Edward wrote: … TD Jakes. He is a Oneness Pentecostal.Â
My understanding is that TD Jakes has been hard to pin down on the Oneness issue. Oneness theology is clearly heresy, of course, and I have my doubts that anyone adhering to it can even be saved. I know that sounds harsh, but in order to be saved, one must have faith in
Christ. This requires a proper understanding of the nature of Christ Himself. (i.e. proper "Christology") Oneness adherents have a very twisted Christology, and I question whether it might be so corrupted as to prevent saving faith.
But that's getting off on a whole other topic. Whether TD Jakes is truly "Oneness", I'm not actually sure.
Edward wrote:Â Kenneth Haggin, the father of the modern day WOF (he rewrote a book by D. R. McConnell and was BUSTED for it) was a Pentecostal.
Again, that's like saying "Fred Phelps is a Baptist". For either statement to be true, it requires a pretty loose definition of "Baptist" or "Pentecostal".
Edward wrote:Jim Bakker was an AOG pastor preaching the WOF thing. He had the support of the AOG.
True enough, but that was in the 80's, when WOF was just coming into stride. Honestly, it caught us off guard and we weren't sure how to deal with it just yet. Just as it took a few years back in 1916 to come to agreement about how to handle the Oneness heretics in our midst, it took a little while to come to agreement on a unified response to WOF. I wish we'd reacted faster, but I think the leadership was surprised at how quickly and how pervasively the doctrine was spreading back then.
Bakker seems a very different man since being released from prison. For what it's worth, the Wikki article on Bakker states:
Bakker has renounced his past teachings on prosperity theology, saying they were wrong. In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was in prison, and that it made him realize he had taken certain passages out of context - passages which he had used as "proof texts" to back up his prosperity teachings. He wrote:
“
The more I studied the Bible, however, I had to admit that the prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of Scripture. My heart was crushed to think that I led so many people astray. I was appalled that I could have been so wrong, and I was deeply grateful that God had not struck me dead as a false prophet!
Edward wrote:BTW, Mylon LeFevre is a WOF'er too. He and Copeland are buddies.Â
Yeah, I noticed that. Kind of saddened me. Do you remember the feeling of sitting in a civic center or Colosseum, waiting for the music to start, when you heard,
Yah Maaah
Yahmah Yey hey ya.
Yah Maaah
Yahmah Yey hey ya
OH MAN!!! What a rush!
Mylon Lefevre and Broken Heart ...definitely the SECOND greatest band of that era.
But hey, if The Holy Spirit can bring Bakker out of the dark, surely Lefevre can be brought back home, right?
Incidentally, in case you need official documentation,
this official position paper from the Assemblies of God on the doctrine of "Positive Confession" demonstrates clearly that we are opposed to the very core of WOF teachings.