Fire By Nite w/ Petra on Youtube

[p-freak]

Fire By Nite #35: Spiritual Warfare w/ special guest Petra

[p-freak]

Fire By Nite #19: Conquering Temptation w/ Petra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVhGdJEy8Fc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHhBlHBOjWQ

[Dan]

Thanks so much Pieter you rock! I have some videos I will have to get converted too they have JS hosting something in Canada from '91

[p-freak]

Thanks, Dan! My pleasure. More to come...

Fire By Nite: Face The Music w/ Kim Boyce

[Jan]

Yeah, these are GREAT! Thanks so much. I hadn't seen videos of some of these songs, and it's always great to see interviews of John and Bob. What an amazing ministry they had....I'm sure the youth group leaders really appreciated them, at least I hope they did! John's speaking voice sounded lower back then, and his hair looks really good in the first two. : )

[Edward]

Fire By Nite #35: Spiritual Warfare w/ special guest Petra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYlsita7Vgg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5K7c3C9PdE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk1SiO6hM9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuEtidfE9e8

I knew those Fire By Night guys. There were based out of Tulsa originally.

While the show is cool, it definitely stinks of Word-of-Faith/Charismatic doctrine. There is no spiritual warfare. Jesus Christ won all of the battles that we have before us. We have to put on the armor or GOD so that we may withstand, not fight. We have no scripture telling us to fight. The scriptures tell us to be still, have faith, pray, wait, resist the devil and he will flee. The only warfare most people have is with themselves, not the devil. There is only one devil. People that think the devil is after them are pretty conceited. I think the devil is doing what the devil is said to be doing in scripture, accusing and lying. He is going after the big movers and shakers. He is not the opposite of God. He is not as powerful as God, only evil. He is a created being, a spirit.

[p-freak]

Edward, you are mentioning a valid point there. A couple of years ago I read Mark Allan Powell - Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music and this spiritual warfare issue was just the point he was holding against Petra.

And I must admit that when I was reading parts of the Petra Prayer Warrior Devotions books I wasn't really convinced by the battle imagery and I definitely do not agree with all the aspects of prayer that are spoken of.

Of course there is something going on in the heavenly realms with spiritual opposition, but you are right that people shouldn't see a demon behind every bush.

How much do we think Bob & Petra were influenced by this warfare theology? Songs like This Means War! are pretty obvious.

Don't get me wrong. I do realize that This Means War! has been a powerful tool to make young people (including me) realize that there ís a spiritual realm and that we need to make a stand.

Would you say, Edward, that Petra was also in this Word-Of-Faith camp? I'm not too familiar with American church denominations, and I know that Petra has never been affiliated with any particular denomination, but I think this might be an interesting debate/discussion.

[sue d.]

There is no spiritual warfare. Jesus Christ won all of the battles that we have before us. We have to put on the armor or GOD so that we may withstand, not fight.

Hmmmm... I never thought of it this way.

You're right, Pieter. This make for a great discussion.

[p-freak]

Fire By Nite #38: Seks. What Do You Pay To Play? Part 1 w/ Josh Mcdowell

[Edward]

Bob does not strike me as a WOF kind of guy. Neither does John. You don't have to be a WOF person to go for the whole thing. Beth Moore, a Southern Baptist, is also into it.

This Means War is not about us fighting Satan. This is about Satan, his fall and his war. The chorus sums it up:

"The Victor is sure and the victory secure
But till judgment we all must endure"

"Now it's all over down to the wire
Counting the days to your own lake of fire
But you'll go down fighting for all that you're worth
To try to abolish His image on earth"

"He Came, He Saw...
He came into this world
He saw humanity
He heard the SOS
He met the enemy
The enemy was conquered
The enemy was conquered!"

[Vic]

I'm of Baptist leaning but I still believe in spiritual warfare, well, not to the extent of looking for a demon behind every bush. Where does that leave me?

I don't believe a blanket condemnation of that particular aspect of Christian life is fair leave alone biblical.

Much as all may be well with me and many others who I know, there are also many who live under torment of devils and demons. Living in Africa has also enabled me to see much more than a many baptist or presbyterian in the West would see.

Suppose you are preaching in the middle of a sermon and a person in the congregation falls down and starts foaming at the mouth, Will you not pray and not cast out the demon in the name of Jesus?

I have witnessed many such happenings in churches that don't preach WOF kind of churches, You can't let pride come in the way of delivering someone from the devil just because you don't agree with some people or kinds of preaching.

I'd urge Edward and anyone who doubts spiritual warfare exists to come to Africa and experience for themselves. Out there, it may be an object of skepticism or mockery. Here it is a reality that a Christian must experience in his walk.

[p-freak]

Vic, I totally believe in the reality of a spiritual battle. And I do know that in your area of the world it's much more visible than in our area of the world. I don't have any experience with stuff like that.

But what I have seen is that many western charismatics are building strategies to 'fight the devil' and 'conquer spiritual territories'. This kind of language usually distracts people from the reality that Edward is sketching. There is a battle going on, but we can fight this battle because we know that the victory has already been won.

I think that this involves a change of mind. Western charismatics tend to frighten people into believing that there are demons all around, e.g. if you have a cold that you are being oppressed by some demon. (This is of course ridiculous, because spiritual oppression is about much more serious things.) This totally changes the way these people look at the world around them. It feels to me like they are frantically attacking and besieging castles in the sky without actually realizing where the battle should be fought.

And Edward, you're right about This Means War! Maybe Get On Your Knees does sound a bit more like the WoF-guys. But in the end I do believe that there ís a reality behind the way Bob has portrayed a lot of things in Petra's songs. And probably some of his language fits neatlessly into the WoF-movement, even though the theologies are not the same.

[Shell]

We are involved in a spiritual battle (although it has been won by Jesus' death on the cross) in the sense that the enemy is going to throw everything he can at us to make us take our eyes off God and not live like we have the victory; that's what that means to me. The enemy has been defeated, yes, but he's still at work in a fallen world and we need to treat him like he's been defeated. I think how we go about doing that is where we run into the differences. We need to be aware of Satan's schemes and tell him to go back where he belongs, we want no part of him, and we do have the authority to do that as Christians because we're covered by Jesus' sacrifice for us. There isn't going to be a demon behind every bush; the enemy very often attacks in what we're dealing with in our everyday lives, and he doesn't want us to be aware of what he's doing. We have the choice to trust God or not with what we're dealing with.

[Dan]

We are involved in a spiritual battle (although it has been won by Jesus' death on the cross) in the sense that the enemy is going to throw everything he can at us to make us take our eyes off God and not live like we have the victory; that's what that means to me. The enemy has been defeated, yes, but he's still at work in a fallen world and we need to treat him like he's been defeated. I think how we go about doing that is where we run into the differences. We need to be aware of Satan's schemes and tell him to go back where he belongs, we want no part of him, and we do have the authority to do that as Christians because we're covered by Jesus' sacrifice for us. There isn't going to be a demon behind every bush; the enemy very often attacks in what we're dealing with in our everyday lives, and he doesn't want us to be aware of what he's doing. We have the choice to trust God or not with what we're dealing with.

I Agree Shell .

.."but till judgment we all must endure"... the enduring is a spiritual and mental fight.

[Edward]

I'm of Baptist leaning but I still believe in spiritual warfare, well, not to the extent of looking for a demon behind every bush. Where does that leave me?

I don't believe a blanket condemnation of that particular aspect of Christian life is fair leave alone biblical.

Much as all may be well with me and many others who I know, there are also many who live under torment of devils and demons. Living in Africa has also enabled me to see much more than a many baptist or presbyterian in the West would see.

Suppose you are preaching in the middle of a sermon and a person in the congregation falls down and starts foaming at the mouth, Will you not pray and not cast out the demon in the name of Jesus?

I have witnessed many such happenings in churches that don't preach WOF kind of churches, You can't let pride come in the way of delivering someone from the devil just because you don't agree with some people or kinds of preaching.

I'd urge Edward and anyone who doubts spiritual warfare exists to come to Africa and experience for themselves. Out there, it may be an object of skepticism or mockery. Here it is a reality that a Christian must experience in his walk.

We see from scripture, and I have seen in person, people being controlled by demons. But not Christians. True Christians cannot be demon possessed. This is the main difference. Demon possession is not what they mean by spiritual warfare.

They imply that we are to speak to and pray that the devil and the demons go away and not bother us. This is not to be. This is not God's will. The influence of Satan and his demons will be present with us unto the end. It is what shapes us and forces us to draw to God. Without the presence of evil we would not see the need.

If a Christian has Jesus as Saviour, and Jesus has won for us so that we will not have to fight (because we would lose), then all we have to do is be still and know. Sheep do not fight. They are protected by the Shepard.