Check out what this bogus website says about Petra

[PetfanInCt]

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

Some of you probably have already seen that site....

[onnyII]

I found this WEb a few years ago.... and when I read that "PETRA data" i wrote to Bob Hartman...

His answer was that "it's true, we recorded that song... but we recorded MANY YEARS before Kiss did" maybe that some info that guy never heard of...


ABOUT MWS: he says this... Michael W. Smith's album, I’ll Lead You Home, has 2046 words —: Jesus occurs — ZERO!

but on that album we can find these 2 songs:

"As It Is In Heaven" THAT'S THE FATHER'S PRAYER!!!!!!
"Crown Him With Many Crowns" so, who am I singin about every sunday when I go to church and sing that song???

I think the only blasphemy on that page is THe guy who made it himself!!!!

That's all I'm going to say about it....

[Shell]

Oh, it's another "I hate rock music" website, and they're just trying to get around it. I wouldn't take it too seriously; they feel threatened or they wouldn't have to bash them. There was a big controversy about "God Gave Rock & Roll To You" a number of years ago, but Bob didn't write the song, and he can't stop other people from recording it.

They make some valid points about some of the garbage that went on in CCM, but they're focusing on the sin and not the One who can forgive and give them repentant hearts.

[gman]

"But in the 70's, a sinister hand began planting a small, but deadly seed. And the walls began to crumble. And like a raging hurricane, rock began desecrating the sacred music of the church. In they came; Bill Gaither, the Imperials, Dallas Holmes, Randy Stonehill, Keith Greene, and others."

When has Bill Gaither ever been considered rock music? You can go into many churches today and find his songs in the hymnal, probably even in the church this 1611 guy attends.
As for his omments on Michael W. Smith, he mentions an album not containing the word Jesus, yet that same album contains the phrase "holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and is, and is to come". You can't get much stronger than that. Then, whether intentional or not, he shows us one of his real beefs. He makes a point about Michael W doing a concert in 1993 and not having anything to at all to say to the kids to point them to Jesus. Interesting how that is not the case now, nor is it the case with Petra. He makes the suggestion that Michael could join with Madonna and sing a duet of Michael's "Love Crusade". Did he bother to find out that "Love Crusade" does contain the word Jesus?
We could go all day on this guy. He makes some valid points about the example artists set, what they say or don't say, and christian music being too focused on fame. But that doesn't necessarily having anything to with the music itself being bad. That is just poor decisions on the part of artists, and allowing themselves perhaps to drift away. I don't care for artists who say, "I'm just like everyone else, leave me alone." Like it or not, they are on a pedestal and should be held to a higher standard, just like Pastors and elders of the church.

[gman]

This guy goes on for awhile bashing Carman.

I think I'm okay with that one.

[BriGuyPEI]

I'm looking at all the things this guy is ranting about, and the only black mark he can find against Petra is the fact that they and Kiss both covered the same song. I'd say that speaks pretty highly of Petra if that's the only ammo he's got.

He also neglected to mention that the only part of the lyrics that are the same between the Kiss and Petra versions is the chorus. Kiss wrote entirely new lyrics for the verses. Oops! That's why the Kiss version is called God Gave Rock N Roll To You II.

[Shell]

But they are like everyone else...They probably get tired of being expected to do what the rest of us can't or won't do. And they probably don't really feel safe about asking for help when they need it because they don't want to be condemned because of our tendency to be shocked at the idea they're not saints. Being a Christian artist doesn't make someone immune from acting like a dumba**. Success has a way of messing things up. I doubt any of these people-Michael English, Sandi Patty or the ever notorious Amy--woke up one day and suddenly decided, "Okay, I'm going to sin and be a bad example, forget everything else." That thinking tends to slip up on you over time. Somewhere along the line, they lost their perspective, and it became about what they wanted instead of what God wanted. They probably didn't guard against that trap by making sure they had people around them who had the insight to see what was happening and call them on it, or they weren't wise enough to listen if they did. That sort of thing has happened
in the lovely world of CCM all too often, and it's probably at least part of the reason why so many good artists who were focused on ministry aren't around anymore. CCM with its emphasis on success and the almighty buck isn't a good atmosphere for artists focused on ministry. The industry doesn't care what goes on so long as the money's coming in. That problem isn't unique to CCM, though. Anyone on any level has to deal with deciding whether to do what God wants or what they want. Especially if money and success are factors.

That being said, we'd do well to spend a little less time speculating about what goes on in their lives and a little more time praying for them.

[brent]

This guy goes on for awhile bashing Carman.

I think I'm okay with that one.

Ok, you have to understand these people. They believe 100% of the truth of God's Word. They would rather error on the side of cautious conservatism. They have great results defending the scriptures and make great apologists. The problem is that these people have few people skills, and come off quite abrasive, if not balistic. They live in the 40's, 50s and 60's. They think that operating in the old ways is holy, and everything is unholy. They have a fit that my dad's church (Saddleback in CA) has a pastor that doesn't wear a suit and socks. Yet thay have 4,000 people saved on Easter, and have the best training of any church on the planet, which made way for over 3,000 ministries out of that church, by it's membership. They get legalistic about it. I grew up in this environment, then got out of it as I matured and God gave wisdom.

Being in Tulsa, and involved in the live audio/recording business, then Christian music business, I have seen many cornball things done by Carman, his former Charasmatic, now Universalist paster Carlton Pearson. I have seen cornball/unholy things done by most of the "faith" movement teachers. Let me tell you that things on TV are not what they seem to be in private life. But, that is their thing. It would be the same for us on the job. It could be the same for your pastor/leadership.

There is no regulation in the industry for common sense. There is no Bible training for Christian entertainers. Anyone with a body and a voice can be a Christian artist. You would be surprised at some of the anti-Christian, humanistic, phsycho-babble BS I have heard as "the gospel" at Christian concerts that I have mixed. At one point I thought that I would rather mix secular stuff, not "christian". It would be better for me not to help someone give an untrue half-message. Shoot, there is one hotty girl that is on your Christian station now, that was in a B movie in Mexico with other wemon half nekkid!!! Nobody cares because she sells CD's. She has also been on tour with secular rappers, simulating sex on stage!! Nobody cares, because sinful, carnal people are running the show!!

There is nothing wrong with Christian entertainment. There is nothing wrong with singing a song without "x" number of "God's" or "Jesus" per minute. I can list hundreds of hymns without God or Jesus in them, but that's not talked about. It is the context of the song, where it is understood who the artist is singing about/to.

If you rely on a Christian concert, or any music at all for your food, then you are nuts. Get your nose into the Word. It is no different that church. Church is not where you get fed. You are fed daily in your home, on your own time. If something is said by a man at church, or at the concert, and it isn't right, then let it go by you.

The only problem that I have is many artists singing about "love." Love is great, but whose love is going save? Love is taking precidence over the giver of it.

[onnyII]

Well...... the thing I LIKE THE MOST about PETRA music is that YU CAN LISTEN TO IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND YOUR WILL NEVER FIND A SINGLE WORD THAT COULD LEAD YOU INTO THINKING "THEY'RE SINGIN ABOUT SEX, NOR DRUGS, NOR SIN... JUST JESUS...


When u listen to STRYPER or POD (just to ention two names.. and don't get me wrong, I LIKE THOSE 2 GROUPS) sometimes u can tell for sure if they're singin about "godly love" or "human love".... sometimes their songs could be dedicated to some woman...... but PETRA doesn't.... all their music it's about GOD..... and that's why PETRA is and ALWAYS WILL BE my FAV CHRISTIAN band...

A lot of PPLZ here now my testimony.. if it wasn't for PETRA's music I would be (4 shure) lost in sin and HATE TO GOD..... so tell that guy that before he opens his mouth against any LORD'S SERVANT, he most be shure of what he's going to tell about 'em.... and to remeber that GOD WON'T LET ANYONE SPEAKS OR DO ANYTHING AGAINST ANY OF HIS SONGS WITHOUT PUNISHMENT....

[brent]

The question is just that. What are His songs?

[finnyguy]

I love christian rock music. Petra, Deliverance, Barren Cross, Saint, The old Bride, Pillar, Tourniquet, Jeremy Camp, Casting Crowns, White Heart, Idle Cure, yada yada yada. I like it a lot. Butthe more time I spend at concerts and festivals and listening to the conversations ont this board and listening to christian radio the less I see God and the more I see the world. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD WITHOUT ANY ERROR. IF YOU DONT THINK THE WHOLE BOOK HAS A PURPOSE TODAY. Then you need to ask yourself if you are truly saved. I do believe that many many good things have come from every band or artist that set out to be a ministry. But just because God can use it dosnt mean it is right. My best friend for the last 15 years became a youth pastor when he was 24 in a very fundamental church. He has since become the pastor of another very fundamental church. We were metal heads together at one time. He still enjoys that music, but he never listens to it. This is the one person I personally know that is in the word all the time. I have seen more spiritual growth in him than anyone I have ever met. I feel somwhat convicted by this, as I have not grown spiritually as much as him, by far. Maybe we should stop spending so much time and money on music, and get into the word more and take it back to the streets ourselves, instead of dragging our friends to a concert so they can do the work for us. I didnt mean to offend anyone by this. I find the whole thing quite convicting myself. I am no better.

[executioner]

Finnyguy,

Your point is well taken. We should never use CCM as are only way to influence us as Christians. It is good to have, but it needs to be a small part of the equation compared to personal Bible Study, prayer, and fellowship with other believers. I strive for this but fail alot in this area.

[executioner]

finnyguy,

Two other artists in CCM that are very strong lyrically are Jonah33 and Skillet. Jonah33 self-titled CD is very powerful and really makes you think about what what being a Christian is. You should check them out.

[gman]

Kutless is a fabulous band as well. I think, if they stick around a long time, they could carry the torch if Petra is no more. They have awesome lyrics like: "I'm not just a man, vastly lost in this world. Lost in the sea of faces. Your body's the bread, your blood is the wine. Cause you traded your life for mine.". They have stated openly that while other Christian bands may go out and just do entertainment type shows, they are intent on doing ministry everywhere they go!

[ErioL]

yea but their music stinks